[FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

[Nicholas Thompson]

Without going backward in my conversation, you and I could add this new
data to the data-pack on go on.

Let's go contrarian for a few strokes.  can you think of things that your
Dusty has done that are inconsistent with love.

Nick

On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 1:23 PM Barry MacKichan <
barry.mackichan at mackichan.com> wrote:

> I feel permitted to barge in on this discussion, since my dog (well, our
> dog) is also named Dusty.
>
> Frequently, I look up from what I’m doing or reading, and he is in his
> chair looking at me, and we can spend several minutes with our eyes locked.
> I call it love; he doesn’t want to talk about it. I’ve read that this is
> common behavior, and that it results in an oxytocin kick to both
> participants. I think that chemical evidence is a good addition to the
> other data in this discussion. My starting assumption is that if a peptide
> is shared between species, the effects of that peptide probably share
> similar mechanisms. I.e., the simplest explanation is that if it affects me
> through emotions, the effect in my dog is probably through something very
> much like an emotion. I’ve never seen any evidence that this is *not*
> true.
>
> Concerning the list of consequences of a loving relationship at the end of
> your message, I would say all three are absolutely true. My wife had covid
> for the first time several months ago, and whenever she was in bed, both
> our dogs were there. When they see we are upset — a frequent occurrence in
> this election year — they will keep their eyes on us and stick with us
> until they are reassured that we are (sorta) OK. They sense emotions better
> than many humans I have known.
>
> When Dusty was a puppy, and I was out of town, my wife took him on a walk,
> off leash, in the arroyo and slipped and fell on the icy path. When she
> opened her eyes a few seconds later, Dusty had his nose right up against
> her face.
>
> --
>
> On 12 Jul 2024, at 12:59, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
> [Please, Friammers,, if you join this discussion, stay close to this or
> other closely related down-to-earth experiences.
>
> Dave, you offer as data:
>
>
> *Dave is sleepy and calm.*
>
> *Dusty is anxious and afraid.*
>
> *Dusty crawls onto Dave's shoulder and finds reassurance and security.*
>
> *Dave is tolerant and does not shove Dusty off bed.*
>
> *Dave senses Dusty's need for reassurance and rests his arm across her
> back and lets her stay as she is.*
> *Dusty relaxes and goes to sleep.*
>
> You then offer the following guide to interpretation:
>
>
> *Love is not present in this transaction, unless you presume that a series
> of prior interactions created a kind of meta-state of Lovingness between
> the two*
>
> I agree with you that love is a meta state in the sense that it is an
> arrangement of other behavioral states.  So I will leave that alone.
> Having so stipulated, I think it is reasonable to say, on the basis of the
> data you set forth, that  a meta-state of lovingness exists between you.
> (I would prefer to say you love one another, but partly in deference to SG,
> I will adopt your lingo.]  To call your joint behavior loving is to perform
> an abduction.  The test of an abduction is to examine the deductions that
> flow from it:
>
> So, if Dave and Dusty have a loving relationship, then, on my
> understanding, the following would be true:
>
> *You would protect one another against harm.*
> *You would attend to one another if either was sick, injured, or
> depressed.*
> *You would  become uneasy if you were separated for an unexpectedly long
> time.*
>
> Are these things true?
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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