[FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

[Nicholas Thompson]

Great example.   The difference between affection is resolved by other
experiences that precede, go with,  and follow on the scratching.

in that connection, can I  be an asshole and quibble with you use of the
term "express".   As a metaphor, it implies that the affection lurks
somewhere under the skin of the dog and that the scratching is an effusion
of some inner pressure.  Its use, blinds us to the evident facts
surrounding the scratching. If it were affectionate  scratching  your
getting up and leaving the sofa would not be followed by the dog taking
your warm spot and sighing gratefully.  It would be followed by the dog
following you into the next room, etc.

Nick

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 12:51 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
wrote:

> Ok, here’s another example.   My dog paws at me when I’m sitting on the
> couch.   At first it appeared to be an expression of affection.   Then I
> realized what she really wanted:  Move and give her the space.    She did
> the same thing with her male sibling (a dog), and he would get rattled and
> walk away.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 9:43 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We
> Thought
>
>
>
> Hi, All,
>
>
>
> Some;body  on this thread suggested that I read the recent article on
> whale communication research in Hah-Vud Mag.  It was interesting, but it
> left me screaming and beating the magazine with my fists in many places.
>
>
>
> If anybody would like to chat about it, I am here for that.  Two comments
> to poke the fire a bit:
>
>
>
> If this is to be the first time we communicate with another species, what
> on earth have i been doing with my dog, all these years?
>
>
>
> If you want to understand an alien intelligence, you sure as hell  don't
> start with human based categories.  You start with a broader perspective
> and place both the human and the alien within it.  Ethology got started
> because its predecessor, comparative psychology, was obsessed with imposing
> human categories on animals.  Finding out what birdsong is actually doing
> has been slowed up for generations by the twin metaphors of music and
> language.
>
>
>
> Beware lure of charismatic science. Just remember, charisma is a
> transaction between an individual and an audience in which the individual
> engages unspoken needs of the audience and the audience rewards him/her
> with notoriety   Most humans are desperate to have their preconceptions
> confirmed.
>
>
>
> AAAAARGH!
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net> wrote:
>
> I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school,
> from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of
> languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the
> same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all
> available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding
> of language and consciousness...
>
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
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>
> --
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
>
> Clark University
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-- 
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
Clark University
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