[FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

[Marcus Daniels]

Ok, here’s another example.   My dog paws at me when I’m sitting on the couch.   At first it appeared to be an expression of affection.   Then I realized what she really wanted:  Move and give her the space.    She did the same thing with her male sibling (a dog), and he would get rattled and walk away.

 

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 9:43 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

 

Hi, All,

 

Some;body  on this thread suggested that I read the recent article on whale communication research in Hah-Vud Mag.  It was interesting, but it left me screaming and beating the magazine with my fists in many places.  

 

If anybody would like to chat about it, I am here for that.  Two comments to poke the fire a bit:

 

If this is to be the first time we communicate with another species, what on earth have i been doing with my dog, all these years?

 

If you want to understand an alien intelligence, you sure as hell  don't start with human based categories.  You start with a broader perspective and place both the human and the alien within it.  Ethology got started because its predecessor, comparative psychology, was obsessed with imposing human categories on animals.  Finding out what birdsong is actually doing has been slowed up for generations by the twin metaphors of music and language.  

 

Beware lure of charismatic science. Just remember, charisma is a transaction between an individual and an audience in which the individual engages unspoken needs of the audience and the audience rewards him/her with notoriety   Most humans are desperate to have their preconceptions confirmed.  

 

AAAAARGH!

 

n

 

 

On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net <mailto:jofr at cas-group.net> > wrote:

I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school, from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding of language and consciousness...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/

 

-J.

 

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-- 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology

Clark University

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