[FRIAM] Writing and Civilization and AI, oh my!

[Marcus Daniels]

Except it doesn’t need to be formalized in the way you seem to mean.   The large language models are billions of weights and biases.  

 

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2024 12:38 PM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Writing and Civilization and AI, oh my!

 

None of IT.

 

The problem is 'extracting' and formalizing IT with sufficient rigor to be encodable.

 

davew

 

 

On Fri, Jul 26, 2024, at 2:13 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> Which of this cannot be encoded digitally by a robot?

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Prof David West

> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2024 12:12 PM

> To: friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> 

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Writing and Civilization and AI, oh my!

> 

> I agree with one small caveat. Artifacts; tangible, written, 

> stigmergic, ... are but a small part of what is "cooperatively 

> constructed and kneaded." The vast majority of what an individual 

> "knows" and the vast majority of what the 'collective' "knows" is 

> tacit, 'in-the-mind' and transmitted orally and/or by non-formal means.

> 

> davew

> 

> 

> On Fri, Jul 26, 2024, at 12:18 PM, glen wrote:

>> Similarly, but a bit larger in scope, humans (and other animals) are 

>> merely small parts of a larger system. The extent to which any one 

>> person actually knows anything (much less is wise about anything) is 

>> negligible, on the same order as that which a chimpanzee knows or is 

>> wise about something. What's *valuable*, worth preserving, are the 

>> cooperatively constructed and kneaded stigmergic cultural artifacts.

>> 

>> But unlike Plato's straw man, suggesting the artifacts are somehow 

>> fixed and repetitive, what's interesting about them is a) their 

>> re-interpretation through successive generations and b) the 

>> derivations spawned from them. Decay and derivation are more 

>> informative than preservation. No single artifact (including flora and 

>> fauna, knowledge or wisdom) matters. What matters is the milieu, 

>> co-mediated by artifacts like math and painting.

>> 

>> On 7/26/24 09:14, Marcus Daniels wrote:

>>> *< *Particularly galling to me is the deprecation and dismissal of 

>>> any human knowledge, wisdom, experience ... that cannot be reduced to 

>>> mere words and abstract symbols. The epitome of this is the conceit 

>>> that AI—which is nothing more than the algorithmic manipulation of 

>>> abstract meaningless tokens is somehow "equivalent" to human 

>>> intelligence.>

>>> 

>>> The conceit of humans, thinking their low energy, low frequency, lossy biochemical system can compete with tens of thousands of 80 billion-transistor GPUs each running a billion operations a second.

>> 

>> 

>> --

>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

>> 

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