[FRIAM] Entropy RE-redux

Tue Jun 17 12:01:57 EDT 2025

 I did not understand, and wanted to understand, your zen comment.  I am reluctant to ask you to punch the tar baby again .   You are, of course, under no obligation to cure my madness or buffer my aging.  But given the coincidence between that comment and DaveW's, who often presses Zen on me, I thought you might be pointing at something there I should pay close attention to.

It will be ok.  You was born and bred in a briar patch.

Nick
________________________________
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Santafe <desmith at santafe.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2025 11:30 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Entropy RE-redux

Zen moment Nick:

On Jun 17, 2025, at 12:00, Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I’ve gone back to feeling that  I don’t even know enough to ask a question.

Just there for an instant, the teacup dipped below full.  btw.: this sentence is a wonderful encapsulation of the difference between the metaphysician and the scientist.  Welcome back.

Frank’s language below is good.  It’s work to understand it, of course, but the crucial starting point is that it admits an understanding because there is a consistent thing being asserted.

Eric

You've probably done this. Nick.

Yes, entropy (S) is a state variable in thermodynamics.
Here's what that means:
 * Definition of a State Variable: A state variable (or state function) is a property of a thermodynamic system that depends only on the current state of the system, not on the path or process taken to reach that state. If a system is in a particular equilibrium state, its state variables will have specific, unique values.
 * Why Entropy is a State Variable:
   * Path Independence: The change in entropy between two states is the same regardless of the reversible or irreversible path taken to go from the initial state to the final state.
   * Unique Value for a Given State: For any given equilibrium state of a system (defined by other state variables like temperature, pressure, and volume), there is a unique value of entropy.
   * Mathematical Property: Mathematically, a quantity is a state variable if its differential is an exact differential, meaning that its integral over a closed path is zero. This is true for entropy.
 * Contrast with Path Variables: In contrast, quantities like heat (Q) and work (W) are not state variables. The amount of heat transferred or work done depends entirely on the specific path followed during a process.
In summary, entropy is a fundamental property that characterizes the state of a thermodynamic system and is independent of its history.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Jun 15, 2025, 9:27 AM Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Same setup as before. Cylinder with two plungers and a peggable slider at dead center.  Lets fill our compartments with bbs of the same volume. Unpeg the divider.  Now lets tap on the two opposite plungers with a series of blows of the same average magnitude but different but different positive skew in the distribution of magnitudes. Will the divider move?
--
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
Clark University
nthompson at clarku.edu<mailto:nthompson at clarku.edu>
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