[FRIAM] Your personal truth

[Prof David West]

Yes, the topography is a metaphor, but, as I noted, simply one I like, mostly because it only tries to explain one piece of the "innards" you referenced.

I am in Saint Paul, Minnesota and, apparently unemployable. If you wish another substack within which to lurk, explore profwest.substack.com

davew


On Fri, May 9, 2025, at 11:49 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Aw Dave.  How great it is to hear from old friends!  Where are you.  How are you!?
> 
> But isn't the neural net itself a metaphor ... a model, if you will, of the relation between input and output?  And could I not generate another model, just a useful that treats the input as the ocean and the out put as the streams. Like water falls spilling over the edge of a filled caldera?
> 
> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 7:27 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> __
>> OK Nick, You asked for it:
>> 
>> I totally agree with you.
>> 
>> As I believe you do, I think metaphor is absolutely essential, generalizing a bit on Quine's statement "at the fringe of science only metaphor can guide us" I would replace science with understanding. But when it comes to the brain, Mind, Consciousness, and Intelligence—no one has produced a useful or even usable metaphor that increases our understanding.
>> 
>> The only point of departure, is I would find less fault with anthropomorphism than I do with the computational metaphor that dominates the conversation about brain-mind-intelligence. Mary is a mere imp compared to that Satan.
>> 
>> I do like Hopfield's metaphor of a topographic surface that channels "rainfall" (inputs) to "oceans" (outputs) as an explanation for the operation of one possible bit of "innards," i.e., a neural net.
>> 
>> davew
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 9, 2025, at 5:16 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>>> Oh Gosh, Jochen.  On the one hand I am deeply indebted to FRIAM members for allowing me to noodle in areas of thought where I have no business; on the other hand, I feel obligated not to hide from you how very, very bad I think Mary C. Lamia’s thinking is.  In the first place, lover of metaphors that am, I think the anthropomorphism of the brain is one of the most dangerous metaphors a human can bring to psychology, because it sets off an eternal loop of thought from which there is no escape.   Meteorology and Psychology have much in common.  They both have to do with objects with innards operating in environments.  With Psychology, the objects are human, the innards are the guts and brain, and the environment is the people and things around us.  In Meteorology, the objects are the storms, the innards are the fronts and other structures of cyclones, and the environment is the earth’s surface and the larger circulation of its atmosphere.  Perhaps I feel drawn to Meteorology just because it seems so like a behavioral science.  (Or, to get the order of events right, I was drawn to Psychology because it was so like Meteorology.)   But we must keep our levels of organization straight.  And if we, like Mary C., are to make metaphors between the whole (the person) and the part (the brain) and then to say that the part is manipulating the whole, she ought to be damn clear what kind of metaphorical world she his let herself into or she will never get out alive. I don’t think she knows anything she is talking about.  I would be terrified if one of my college-aged grandchildren were to fall into the hands of such a person. 
>>>  
>>> I am deeply sorry if I am being a jerk.  (And will no doubt deeplier sorrier when one of you points out both that I am both being a jerk and  that I am wrong).  If you were tempted to carry on this conversation further, now I have been a jerk, I would love to explore with you how some aspect of Mary’s thought accorded with your experience and perhaps gave you comfort or insight because of that.  When she talks of the brain, what is she actually talking about for you.  Because, if one thing is damned sure, it is that when people talk about their brains, they are talking about something they have never touched or seen or heard or felt.  They are talking about a beetle in a box, a nothing.  Or they are using the brain as a model of behavior. 
>>>  
>>> OK, Russ, Dave, Glen, Marcus, Erics, have at me. 
>>>  
>>> Nick
>>>  
>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 24, 2025 2:10 PM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Your personal truth
>>>  
>>> If Nick shares his struggles with weather I can share my unqualified thoughts about psychology :-P I was thinking about the orange menace, how he deceives everyone and how he manipulates his followers by controlling their emotions and I was wondering if emotions deceive us in general. Do emotions deceive us by creating a reality distortion field that paints the objects they have identified as desirable (primarily food & mates for supper and pairing time) in the brightest colors? 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Emotions certainly need to manipulate us in order to control us. Their purpose is to influence our behavior and interactions. Psychologist Mary C. Lamia writes "Without any deliberate effort on your part, your brain evaluates every situation you encounter and decides if an emotion should be activated to alert and protect you" [1]. They are in a sense the PR machine and advertising agency of the body. As if the body would create an advertising agency that highlights the objects it should seek. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Emotions deceive us because they exaggerate. If we are in love they turn the desired object of person into some kind of wonderful dream. We only perceive positive traits while negative ones are overlooked. If we hate something we only perceive negative traits. These distortions act on top of your beliefs which "create a cognitive lens through which you interpret the events of your world" [2]
>>> 
>>>  
>>> They exaggerate to alert and protect us. Mary C. Lamia writes "By creating anxiety, anger, sadness, fear, guilt, shame, disgust, embarrassment, or any number of emotional responses that your brain has at its disposal, your emotional system attempts to inform and protect you by making you feel whatever it is you need to know." [1]
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Emotions deceive us because they can be misguided based on your previous experience, for example in anxiety disorders or addiction: "Your emotional system has no reason to lie, although it can be misguided based on your previous experiences in the world that have informed it." [1]
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Apparently emotions create a personal truth for each of us which shows us the world as they (on behalf of our selfish genes) want us to see it. A kind of personalized, distorted version of reality that reflects the importance of each object based on our personal longings and desires. Mary C. Lamia writes "nevertheless, your emotions will tell you the truth - your truth - even if you don't want to listen." [1]
>>> 
>>>  
>>> [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201208/do-emotions-lie
>>> 
>>>  
>>> [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-forward/202009/how-your-thinking-creates-your-reality
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -J.
>>>  
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>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> nthompson at clarku.edu
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson
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