[FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

[glen]

Hm. Well, steelmanning as best I can, you may be arguing that the left and right fingers cannot measure independently and that some data fusion must happen. If that's the case, then simultaneous measures might demonstrate that.

But, when I was a child I scarred my right index finger so that when I touch the right and left pads, they measure quite different things. And I can distinguish. You might even be able to invoke the bicameral brain if necessary. 

Does that change anything?


On September 19, 2018 12:36:55 PM PDT, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net> wrote:
>Fair enough. 
>
> 
>
>Not sure it will.  You wrote:
>
> 
>
> 
>
>No magical psychological terms are needed. 8^) And I totally accept
>your "all perception is 'other-perception'"; and this formulation
>allows that because it is one PART measuring anOTHER part.
>
> 
>
>I was hoping to demonstrate to you that the notion of “feeling” is
>entirely mysterious.  But mostly I was hoping that you and others would
>try the experiment and report back to me.  Whenever I do it, the effect
>is always bizarre.  When the experiment is over, I find it difficult to
>parse the sentence, “Jones felt X.”  
>
> 
>
>Look!  About this sort of thing, I don’t hope to convince anybody, only
>to worry them as much as I am worried:  BUT: I guess I think that all
>interpsychic talk is incoherent because psyches are just relations
>between organisms and objects and all intrapsychic talk is metaphorical
>at best and metaphysical at worst.  One might question whether I should
>be bothing your and our colleagues with such ill formed reflections,
>but I guess I think that that is precisely what FRIAM is FOR. 
>
> 
>
>Nick 
>
> 
>
>Nicholas S. Thompson
>
>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
>Clark University
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> 
>
> 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ?
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 2:55 PM
>To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com>
>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?
>
> 
>
>I've failed to understand how that changes anything I wrote or how it
>might change my opinion that animals (but not plants) psychologize. 
>Can you elaborate how your experiment is supposed to change my opinion?
>
> 
>
>On 09/19/2018 11:51 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
>> /Au contraire! /This is totally magical, but still very interesting. 
>I suggest that you conduct the following series of experiences.
>
>> 
>
>> */(1)    /**/With the pad of your right index finger, feel the
>surface 
>
>> of your desk./*
>
>> 
>
>> */(2)    /**/With the pad of your right index finger, feel the hair
>on 
>
>> your other arm./*
>
>> 
>
>> */(3)    /**/With the pad of your right index finger, feel the palm
>of 
>
>> your left hand./*
>
>> 
>
>> */(4)    /**/With the pad of your right index finger, feel the pad of
>
>
>> your left index finger./*
>
>> 
>
>> */(5)    /**/Now, without changing the motions you are making, feel 
>
>> the pad of your right index finger with the pad of your left.  /*
>
> 
>
>--
>
>☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
>
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-- 
glen