[FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

[Steven A Smith]

On 5/5/20 3:04 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Dammit, Nick.  I can and frequently do spend hours planning,
> remembering, composing emails, fantasizing about my next car, etc 
> without exhibiting any remarkable behavior beyond eyeblinking,
> touching my face (don't!), crossing and uncrossing my legs.  We've
> been through this before but  what is my latest plan about what to do
> when my auto lease is up?  No one knows but me despite your claim that
> I don't have private access to these kinds of things.

And following (weakly I am sure) Glen's reference to "holographically",
I believe that if we record/observe *all* of your behaviour down to the
minutest detail, we can learn a LOT about that inner state.    If we had
that data from the *last* time you approached buying a new car (maybe
years out) we might recognize the specific patterns of leg-crossing and
eye-blinking and chair-leaning that go with fantasizing about that
muscle-car inspired anti-proton powered 6 wheel-drive hub-motor flying
car you have been jonesing on!    

I'm somewhat with Glen (as I understand him in this conversation) on the
ideation that inner and outer is somewhat mutable.    Sometimes the
6-rotor flying drone-car I fantasize (and blame on Frank) flitting
around in is *part of* *me* and other times it is what I interface *to*
and *it* interfaces (mostly) to the air (and sometimes to the water, the
ground, and unfortunately a tall tree here and there).    When I am
composing a message *to* this august body named FriAM, I often think of
youse alls as "external" to me, but if I'm talking to one of the
philistines in my life who do NOT spend all their time talking/thinking
about these kinds of things (whatever these kinds are), I sometimes
think of myself as being *of* "the FriAM" rather than "in the FriAM" (or
is that FriAM pan?).


>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:36 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,Glen,
>
>     Careful.  Isn't the formulation "inner world" entirely
>     contradictory? 
>
>     N
>
>     Nicholas Thompson
>     Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>     Clark University
>     ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>     https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>     <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
>     Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:50 PM
>     To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>     Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve
>
>     However, I think we can come up with a (maybe someday) testable
>     hypothesis based on hidden states. In principle, if EricC's
>     principle is taken seriously, the inner world of a black box
>     device will be *completely* represented on its surface (ala the
>     holographic principle). Any information not exhibited by a black
>     box's *behavior* will be lost/random.
>
>     This implies something about the compressibility and information
>     content of the black box's behavior, right?
>
>     On 5/5/20 10:38 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>     > This does not advance an argument against the possibility of a
>     computer thinking — merely an assertion that "behavior" is not a
>     valid basis upon which to argue that they do.
>
>
>     --
>     ☣ uǝlƃ
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> -- 
> Frank Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> 505 670-9918
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