[FRIAM] from 5/15 virtual FRIAM

[thompnickson2 at gmail.com]

Hi David, 

As I review to myself the very little I know about LDS history, it seems to
me that the church suffered more at the hands of mobs than it did of
governments.  Is that true?  And if so, where does the distaste for
governments arise?  And how is a system in which some few elders can deploy
the resources of a community as they see fit NOT a government?
I keep expecting Jim Gattiker to weigh in.  I think he will say something
about the hegemony and coercive power of The State.  With LDS you can always
choose a different religion.  So, it's not that you fear governments, it's
that you fear SOME governments.  And then the question is, what is the
difference between governments you fear and those you don't?  

Nick 
Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 11:08 AM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: [FRIAM] from 5/15 virtual FRIAM

Topics arose on Friday that I would be interested in pursuing if anyone else
shares the interest

We briefly talked about story and evocation versus representation

I claimed that a words and pictures can be placed on a continuum between
representational and evocative. A journal article being closer to
representation, poetry closer to evocative. Pictures are more likely to be
evocative (although the typical "here I am at the Grand Canyon" pic is
mostly representative) because sight dominates our senses and text has to be
processed via the left-brain before we can make sense of / react to it.

Stories can be fixed on the same spectrum. I have spent a lot of time
working with story within the world of software development. Although story
has been a constant in software (e.g.UML Use Cases, Agile User Stories) they
have been nearly useless because they are representational - requirement
capture - in nature and stripped of evocative context.

Nick raised the issue of being contrarian with regards science and could get
no one to admit to anything beyond ignoring doctor's orders. This
conversation also briefly touched on conspiracies and the possibility of a
conspiracy without conspirators.

My frequent COVID contrariness is, I think, an example of what Nick was
looking for. It certainly contains the arrogance of thinking I am better
informed with regard relevant data than what is contained in the models and
prognostications put forward by the experts.

Also, I would assert that the "Deep State" is a real thing, and an exemplar
of a conspiracy without conspirators.

Thirdly, we talked about charity and the gap between personal and
institutional. Contrary to Steve, who noted he grew up absent any kind of
religious charitable context, I grew up in a culture where personal charity,
awareness, and mutual aid was ubiquitous and constant. Welfare was
distributed with every Bishop (roughly equivalent to parish priest -
responsible for 100-150 families) had full authority to grant food,
clothing, housing, etc. assistance to anyone within his Ward. Social
contact, both in church services but also via activities like Family Home
Teaching, meant that everyone in the Ward was aware of the needs of everyone
else and the Bishop was fully informed as well. When families, even
communities, experienced disaster, it was rectified in a matter of days and
months. Similar things have been observed in Mennonite and Amish
communities.

The social system integrated with the LDS religion (or Amish or Mennonite)
can provide both the personal and the institutional support, and charity,
that will forever elude bureaucratic government.

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