[FRIAM] Metaphor [POSSIBLE DISTRACTON FROM]: privacy games
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sat May 30 02:01:55 EDT 2020
On one of my first trips to the Bay Area I remember driving up
telegraph? into Berzerkley and saw a "Bank of America" sign that had
been very artfully re-designed to say "Bank of Apartheid"
I've a good friend in Berk who said tonight that he was expecting the
grey haired hippies and beats to "March on Peets" at sunrise. He's
still mostly pepper with a little salt, and post-boomer himself.
> Piedmont, for example, has a higher per capita income than Beverly Hills.
>
> On the other hand if one wants to drag a newspaper dispenser into the
> street and use it as a shield from rubber bullets, that’s an option
> too. Oakland has got it all!
>
>
>
> I mentioned this hackery. Fun.
>
>
>
> https://www.berkeleyside.com/2019/09/09/whos-been-hacking-digital-traffic-signs-in-berkeley
>
>
>
> I saw someone on MSNBC tonight dreading the “global anarchists”.
> Seriously?
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith
> <sasmyth at swcp.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Friday, May 29, 2020 at 10:03 PM
> *To: *"friam at redfish.com" <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Metaphor [POSSIBLE DISTRACTON FROM]: privacy games
>
>
>
> I think I just saw Marcus blocking 880 in Oakland!
>
> Nick, for the record, and this will not change from my end:
>
>
>
> Your right to be interested in whatever you are interested in is
> sacrosanct, here or in any other forum. I don’t think there are
> thread boundaries on that, though there are all the normal
> courtesies which I see more clearly for a while after I transgress
> one.
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2020, at 1:03 PM, <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> All –
>
>
>
> I feel norm formation going on here, and it is making me a bit
> nervous. I am not sure what follows from that, but there it
> is. I thing that we at FriAM have long worked the boundary
> between work and play. I think that’s where the best work is
> done.
>
>
>
> But this is my thread, right? Can a man bust his own
> thread? */_I d o n t t h I n k s o_/*. I want to talk
> about metaphor. And it’s relation to models. And it’
> relation to the concept of intentionality. The question is,
> To what extent do our norms allow me to bring those concerns
> to other threads. And the answer I am hearing from many of
> you is, “Less than I have been”.
>
>
>
> Well, I will do my best. But, for instance, I think the
> “work” we did on “strawman” was tremendously important. In my
> introductory graduate lectures at Berkeley, where, one by one,
> the the grey-backed gorillas of the department laid down the
> law. Somebody, I think David Krech, announced that if “I say
> that the number of rat turds left by a rat in an open field
> maze is “anxiety”, then that is what anxiety IS for the
> purposes of my research, and there’s no more discussion to be
> had.” And even in the tenuous position of a first year
> graduate student I knew that was wrong. Meanings have
> momentum. Words have meaning that is independent of their
> users. I have fought for 50 years to rescue ‘teleonomy’
> (=natural design) from the dualistic thieves that abducted
> it. And SteveG and I could be thought of as battling for nigh
> a decade and half about which specification of the metaphor of
> natural selection is best for the purposes of understanding
> natural design. (I thought we made a lot of progress on that
> issue today.) Much of what we do in scientific discourse is
> fight over metaphors and we need to develop methods for
> fighting fairly, skillfully, and expeditiously.
>
>
>
> I don’t think I have EVER introduced the idea of metaphor in a
> conversation where I didn’t think a clarification or
> specification of the metaphors implicit in our conversation
> might move the discussion forward. I may be playing with
> words but I am not /just/ playing with words. God knows, I
> may have been WRONG in many cases, but I absolutely defend the
> idea that attention to the metaphors at play in a conversation
> is often essential to any development of understanding or
> convergence of opinion.
>
>
>
> Is it /always?/ No. Of course not. And I will try to be
> more careful about that.
>
>
>
> Thanks, as always, for all your thoughts. My life would not
> be half of what it is without them. Really. It’s perhaps
> pathetic for me to admit that, but it’s true.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *David Eric
> Smith
> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2020 9:11 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Metaphor [POSSIBLE DISTRACTON FROM]:
> privacy games
>
>
>
> Hi Jon,
>
>
>
> No, actually not any issue with any of what you had posted, as
> also just affirmation toward various historical posts by Glen.
>
>
>
> Yes, sorry about a thread-rudeness. I had sort of dropped a
> chunk of something that had been accumulating for a week in
> the middle of your thread which was in the coarse of solving
> other problems, where it didn’t belong. Partly this was
> because yours had been the latest snapshot, partly it was
> because the overall frame you and Glen and Steve are building
> is one that I would like to think of my own additions as
> finding a place in, and partly I was probably using the
> measured tone of this sub-thread as cover, since my own was
> rather crabby and aggressive. Strange that it seemed formally
> impolite to me, to use your thread as a point of departure and
> not direct the salutation to you, while I blew past the fact
> that it was substantively rude to use the thread, rather than
> to participate in it.
>
>
>
> Very good. Thanks for calling me on this,
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Jon Zingale
> <jonzingale at gmail.com <mailto:jonzingale at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Eric,
>
>
>
> I am not sure that I disagree with you anywhere, but I am
>
> unsure whether you are taking issue with me? The proliferation
>
> of threads are sometimes hard for me to follow, inevitably
> I mis-
>
> determine who is talking to whom. Are there places in my
> writing
>
> that you would suggest I revisit and reconsider? Pointing
> things
>
> out to another can be an expensive and thankless task, so
> thank
>
> you in advance.
>
>
>
> Jon
>
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