[FRIAM] thermodynamics of gambling demons

Sat Apr 24 10:45:14 EDT 2021

Roger -

I got stopped at the paywall for the full text but from the abstract I
was a little befuddled.  What I *wanted* to read/hear/believe was that
thier use of "proprioception" is an example of the plant
maintaining/developing a "model" of the past (and therefore potential
future) range of motion/stress of it's elements which is then used to
guide it's development even when it isn't under immediate deformation?  

The abstract seems to use "proprioception" to imply that the plant
somehow collectively generates some movement like what was being induced
on it by the environment, even when it isn't being distorted/stressed
from the outside? 

Probably it is more clear in the full article.

- Steve

> From yesterday's issue of
> Science: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6540/eabc6868
> <https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6540/eabc6868>, Fluctuations
> shape plants through proprioception
>
> Plants constantly experience fluctuating internal and external
> mechanical cues, ranging from nanoscale deformation of wall
> components, cell growth variability, nutating stems, and fluttering
> leaves to stem flexion under tree weight and wind drag. Developing
> plants use such fluctuations to monitor and channel their own shape
> and growth through a form of proprioception. Fluctuations in
> mechanical cues may also be actively enhanced, producing oscillating
> behaviors in tissues. For example, proprioception through leaf nastic
> movements may promote organ flattening. We propose that
> fluctuation-enhanced proprioception allows plant organs to sense their
> own shapes and behave like active materials with adaptable outputs to
> face variable environments, whether internal or external. Because
> certain shapes are more amenable to fluctuations, proprioception may
> also help plant shapes to reach self-organized criticality to support
> such adaptability.
>
> This review is against the view that plant morphology is simply a
> deterministic developmental program with environmental noise imposed
> on it.
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 2:29 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com
> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>
>     programming/problem domain aside, what a "blast from the past"
>     with (mostly?) deprecated toolkits/chains/standards:
>
>         /SunOS vs Solaris, VGA output, TCL, PERL, C vs C++, and OMG
>         Forth!/
>
>     Steampunk or maybe Dieselpunk era hardware/software!   A Clackers'
>     delight!
>
>     On 4/23/21 11:44 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>     Possibly of interest
>>       
>>       https://qiskit.org/events/physics-of-computation/ <https://qiskit.org/events/physics-of-computation/>
>>
>>     There was one of these at SFI for a while, if memory serves.  I never used it.
>>
>>       http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/cam8/ <http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/cam8/>
>>       https://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/cam8.pdf <https://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/cam8.pdf>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
>>     Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:26 AM
>>     To: friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>>     Subject: Re: [FRIAM] thermodynamics of gambling demons
>>
>>
>>     On 4/23/21 7:20 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>>>     https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603 <https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603>
>>>     <https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603> <https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603>
>>>
>>>     If the demon "decides" to quit while it's ahead, it "wins", and the 
>>>     entropy of the universe decreases.
>>>
>>>     -- rec --
>>>
>>>     via 
>>>     https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startle <https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startle>
>>>     -scientists-20210422/ 
>>>     <https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startl
>>>     e-scientists-20210422/> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startle-scientists-20210422/>
>>>
>>>
>>     I was totally captivated by the Reversible Computing work presented by Margolus, Fredkin, Toffoli in the 1983 Cellular Automata conference at Los Alamos.   I was brand new and easily impressed by some measures but the breadth of work presented during that week was amazing.   Even though I stayed "in" the orbit of all that work on through the first decade of the ALife movement,   I always felt I was pursuing a mirage "just over the horizon".   My day job never aligned with this work so the available time/horsepower I had to pursue it was limited.
>>
>>     I am not surprised to see that Quantum Computing/Information has added it's own twist, I'd be curious if Marcus (or anyone else) has some first-hand perspective) on this.
>>
>>     https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9503016 <https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9503016>
>>
>>     http://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/thesis.pdf <http://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/thesis.pdf>
>>
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiard-ball_computer <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiard-ball_computer>
>>
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_philosophy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_philosophy>
>>
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_physics#Pancomputationalism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_physics#Pancomputationalism>
>>
>>
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