[FRIAM] what complexity science says ...

Mon Feb 8 14:19:57 EST 2021

I am assuming that there are parts of the spectrum a patient's cochlea is sensitive to, and others that it is not sensitive to.
I'm claiming that if the hearing profile for the patient is precise, and a hearing aid does some mapping from the original spectrum to a different one, e.g. using frequencies that aren't in the original signal, that there may still be the problem that the patient cannot adapt to the remapping, even though there is technically no information loss.

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of thompnickson2 at gmail.com
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 10:22 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com>
Cc: 'Boozer Daly' <shizame at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] what complexity science says ...

M.

But, if the cochlea can't handle what the fft serves up, the brain doesn't get the information it expects, and so the sound is garbled.  The torture of deafness is not only loss of volume but that one clearly hears what just as clearly could not have been said.  This the dream-like quality of mis-hearing, where the deaf person hears some wildly improbable utterance rather than any that might be expected.  I keep offering the idea (in the hope of being contradicted) that such mishearings violate a general principle of perception that, ceteris paribus, we see what we expect to see.

I slandered Frank and unslandered SteveG.  The diagram is from the latter.

[cid:image001.png at 01D6FE0C.535FD3A0]

Clearly the diagram is non-sense, right?  It depicts amplitude but claims to provide frequency or wave length data.  But both of the latter require differential "representation", right.  Moreover, the depiction of  the cochlea as flat and "unrolled" is one of those "assume-a-spherical-cow" things.  Cows aren't spherical and cochlea aren't flat AND they ARE  cooped up in a bony spiral.  How does that distort the wave as it sloshes around the spiral, constantly turning right?  And what about back waves arising from the pulsing of the lower window?

I stipulate that it's easier to ask questions than to answer them, but, just on the face of it, don't you agree that what we were taught in graduate school is nuts?

Nick Thompson

ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 11:41 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Cc: 'Boozer Daly' <shizame at sbcglobal.net<mailto:shizame at sbcglobal.net>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] what complexity science says ...

They do frequency-lowering with dedicated FFT hardware, it sounds like.   That sounds more like brain issue than cochlea issue?

-----Original Message-----

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 8:51 AM

To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>

Cc: 'Boozer Daly' <shizame at sbcglobal.net<mailto:shizame at sbcglobal.net>>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] what complexity science says ...

Right  exactly.  But the hearing aid is BEFORE the cochlea.  So if hearing aids are crap, it must be because they do something to the sound that the cochea cannot adjust to.  So, in Mike's absence, land with the help of Frank's diagram, let's take this step by step.  The sound enters the external ear and knocks on the tympanic membrane. The membrane, in turn operates the tiny bones of the stapes, which in turn compress the inner

membrane.   So in what way is a digitized, analysed sound ill suited to what

happens next.

N

Nick Thompson

ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of jon zingale

Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 8:39 AM

To: friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] what complexity science says ...

If I remember correctly, this wasn't Mike's argument. It was *not* a question of sampling rate nor one of range. Instead, I believe, it had to do with architecture, the Spatio-temporal relationship that the neurons at the cochlea have to one another, and the training our nervous system undergoes when we are young to make sense of this data.

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