[FRIAM] The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of Consciousness by Mark Solms

Tue Feb 9 16:52:02 EST 2021

N

This make me feel sad:

If Nancy Hanks
came back as a ghost,
seeking news of what she loved most,
she'd ask first,
"Where's my son?
What's happened to Abe?
What's he done?"

"Poor little Abe,
left all alone,
Except for Tom,
who's a rolling stone;
He was only nine,
the year I died.
I still remember
how hard he cried."

You know the rest.  I'm the de facto father of a nine year-old boy, as you
know.  And Friday is Abe's birthday.

F

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 12:50 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> F
>
>
>
> And what is the feeler you are using when you feel them and what exactly
> is that feeler feeling?  I assume your answer will be that you are using
> your feeling feeler and what the feeling feeler is feeling is feelings.
> (};-)]
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> PS Glen (at least) is going to dope-slap us for having in public the same
> stupid argument again.  But I do so enjoy it.
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 9, 2021 1:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of
> Consciousness by Mark Solms
>
>
>
> Emotions are what I feel.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 12:31 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I might agree with Burkerman here, if we understand emotions/motives as
> assessments of the relation between what I need and the ability of my
> environment to provide it.
>
> Thanks, all.
>
> n
>
> Nick Thompson
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 1:13 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of
> Consciousness by Mark Solms
>
> Thanks so much for posting this, Russ! I finally got around to the
> Guardian article. I'm at risk for confirmation bias because I tend to think
> consciousness is a lossy, multivalent compression of interoceptive
> composites. And the extent to which one can [⛧] feel what it's like to be
> some (other) thing depends fundamentally on whether or not you a) have
> similar elemental interoceptive pathways, b) whether they compose in a
> similar way, and c) compress to a similar result. That allows for a
> spectrum of similarity from extremes of, say, a rock to a bat to another
> human.
>
> In any case, it's on the wishlist:
> https://bookshop.org/books/the-hidden-spring-a-journey-to-the-source-of-consciousness/9780393542011
>
>
> [⛧] Feeling like something else is subtly different from *inferring* how
> something else feels (or from being manipulated into similar feelings).
>
> On 2/6/21 5:15 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
> > About to be published.
> >
> > From a review <
> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/05/the-hidden-spring-by-mark-solms-review-the-riddle-of-consciousness-solved>
> by Oliver Burkeman:
> >
> > Burkeman: Using poignant case studies of neurology patients – including
> children born with brain damage, yet plainly still capable of sadness and
> joy – [Solms] argues persuasively that consciousness ultimately arises not
> in the cortex, the seat of advanced intelligence, but in the more primitive
> brainstem, where basic emotions begin.
> >
> > Russ: In other words, consciousness exists far down the tree of life.
> >
> > Burkeman: To the best of my understanding, the gist [of the book] is
> > that feelings are a uniquely effective and efficient way for humans to
> monitor their countless changing biological needs, in extremely
> unpredictable environments, to set priorities for action and make the best
> choices so as to remain within various bounds – of hunger, cold and heat,
> physical danger, social isolation, etc – outside of which we can’t survive
> for long. Doing all that without feelings, and doing it as rapidly as
> survival requires, would take so many computational resources that it would
> lead to a “combinatorial explosion”, demanding levels of energy a human
> could never muster.
> >
> > Here's Nick Lane's blurb on Amazon
> > <https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Spring-Journey-Source-Consciousness/dp/
> > 0393542017/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8>: (If you know Nick
> > Lane, you know he is worth listening to.)
> >
> > "At last the emperor has found some clothes! For decades, consciousness
> has been perceived as an epiphenomenon, little more than an illusion that
> can't really make things happen. Solms takes a thrilling new approach to
> the problem, grounded in modern neurobiology but finding meaning in older
> ideas going back to Freud. This is an exciting book."
> > ― Nick Lane, author of /The Vital Question/
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
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-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918

Research:  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
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