[FRIAM] civil war(s)

Wed Mar 10 18:41:53 EST 2021

Or chumming, as in throwing bloody fish in the water to attract sharks.

I read BLM protests on first scan as a reference to the Bundy stand-off,
per Wikipedia:

The 2014 *Bundy standoff* was an armed confrontation between supporters of
> cattle rancher Cliven Bundy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy> and
> law enforcement following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United
> States Bureau of Land Management
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management> (BLM) obtained
> court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in withheld grazing
> fees <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing_fees#United_States> for
> Bundy's use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy's ranch in
> southeastern Nevada <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada>.

Just another note on the hazards of acronyms.  Especially with erratic
memories involved.

-- rec --

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:

>
> Not speaking for Nick, *I* think politics (vs statesmanship) are at the
> very *least* _rhetorical_.   I believe rhetoric often includes direct
> deceit.  A great deal of politics in the US today (maybe forever) is
> acutely deceitful, even when it isn't attack-oriented.  One party is
> significantly more bold than the other in that regard.  DaveW may invert
> the sense of that judgement, but probably agrees that deceptive rhetoric is
> a mainstay in politics.
>
> I think the "Civil War" metaphor isn't just deceitful, it is intentionally
> provocative and deeply disingenuous.  My personal opinion is that the angry
> Right Mob and the Puppeteers yanking their strings wants a *literal* Civil
> War so that they can exercise their superior firepower and brutality to
> obtain/retain singular minority rule over a growing majority coalition of
> minorities.   I think the rhetoric of the last year from that quarter
> trying to imply that the LEFT was on the verge of starting a hot Civil War
> if they "didn't get their way" was more projection, and intended to create
> a certain amount of cover and/or precedent for the type of coup attempt we
> saw on December 37th and the acute threats of violence from the right that
> has been bubbling for a very long time.
>
> Perhaps "Cold Civil War" is more apt and less suggestive of
> endorsing/tolerating violence as a means.
>
> Even the most violent of BLM and related protests did not aspire to
> overthrow government or reverse an election.   While their attempts to hold
> law enforcement accountable in response to specific recent incidents (it is
> not a small list) and systemic abuses might have risen above a threshold of
> violence that many of us might approve, the movement was NOT about
> disenfranchising anyone except the very public servants who are supposed to
> work for us ("Protect and Serve").
>
> All that said, I'm not unsympathetic with the resentments "the common man"
> has against their elected Representatives in our Republic, but any rhetoric
> that suggests that the Left is worse than the Right is acutely
> disingenuous.
>
> Regarding the term "spin"...  I *do* think it is apt in the sense of
> "making your head spin" but I think the metaphor of "churn" is yet more apt
> in the sense that a great deal of the point seems to be to generate lots of
> obfuscation by conflation.   Muddying the waters...
>
> - Steve
>
>
> That's because you think politics is essentially deceitful?
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:59 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I always thought the metaphor was to a web of deceit.
>>
>> n
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Thompson
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Roger Critchlow
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:53 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:34 PM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
>> wrote:
>>
>> schisms might be a better metaphor than civil war.
>>
>> you are correct that there is, and always has been, "churn" among
>> factions within both parties and any significance given to a particular
>> instance of that churn e.g GOPS taking committee assignments away from a
>> flake or the Nevada state party instance — originate in the mind of the one
>> pointing at the event rather than intrinsic to the event itself. One reason
>> that I find most political headlines to be examples of wishful thinking
>> rather than communicators of significance.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>>
>> Second that, it's why they call it spin, cause it makes your head spin if
>> you pay too much attention.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- rec --
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