[FRIAM] civil war(s)
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Wed Mar 10 19:17:50 EST 2021
I live on Bundy Lane (100 meters long, with three other households) off
of NM 502 and when I give directions to the house I describe it as
"Bundy Lane as in Al or Ted" but have had to add "or Ammon and Cliven"
to be more current. In another decade I hope none of those references
mean anything.
Yes, there is an element of "chumming" among all the "spinning" and
"churning". I also liked Glen's usage of "spinning" with "Wing Nuts"
a while back... if Doug were still with us, he'd probably throw in some
off-color reference to "Spinners" as well. The boon/bane of metaphor I
suppose.
On 3/10/21 4:41 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> Or chumming, as in throwing bloody fish in the water to attract sharks.
>
> I read BLM protests on first scan as a reference to the Bundy
> stand-off, per Wikipedia:
>
> The 2014 *Bundy standoff* was an armed confrontation between
> supporters of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy> and law enforcement
> following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United States
> Bureau of Land Management
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management> (BLM)
> obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in
> withheld grazing fees
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing_fees#United_States> for
> Bundy's use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy's ranch in
> southeastern Nevada <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada>.
>
>
> Just another note on the hazards of acronyms. Especially with erratic
> memories involved.
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com
> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Not speaking for Nick, *I* think politics (vs statesmanship) are
> at the very *least* _rhetorical_. I believe rhetoric often
> includes direct deceit. A great deal of politics in the US today
> (maybe forever) is acutely deceitful, even when it isn't
> attack-oriented. One party is significantly more bold than the
> other in that regard. DaveW may invert the sense of that
> judgement, but probably agrees that deceptive rhetoric is a
> mainstay in politics.
>
> I think the "Civil War" metaphor isn't just deceitful, it is
> intentionally provocative and deeply disingenuous. My personal
> opinion is that the angry Right Mob and the Puppeteers yanking
> their strings wants a *literal* Civil War so that they can
> exercise their superior firepower and brutality to obtain/retain
> singular minority rule over a growing majority coalition of
> minorities. I think the rhetoric of the last year from that
> quarter trying to imply that the LEFT was on the verge of starting
> a hot Civil War if they "didn't get their way" was more
> projection, and intended to create a certain amount of cover
> and/or precedent for the type of coup attempt we saw on December
> 37th and the acute threats of violence from the right that has
> been bubbling for a very long time.
>
> Perhaps "Cold Civil War" is more apt and less suggestive of
> endorsing/tolerating violence as a means.
>
> Even the most violent of BLM and related protests did not aspire
> to overthrow government or reverse an election. While their
> attempts to hold law enforcement accountable in response to
> specific recent incidents (it is not a small list) and systemic
> abuses might have risen above a threshold of violence that many of
> us might approve, the movement was NOT about disenfranchising
> anyone except the very public servants who are supposed to work
> for us ("Protect and Serve").
>
> All that said, I'm not unsympathetic with the resentments "the
> common man" has against their elected Representatives in our
> Republic, but any rhetoric that suggests that the Left is worse
> than the Right is acutely disingenuous.
>
> Regarding the term "spin"... I *do* think it is apt in the sense
> of "making your head spin" but I think the metaphor of "churn" is
> yet more apt in the sense that a great deal of the point seems to
> be to generate lots of obfuscation by conflation. Muddying the
> waters...
>
> - Steve
>
>
>> That's because you think politics is essentially deceitful?
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:59 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I always thought the metaphor was to a web of deceit.
>>
>> n
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Thompson
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Roger
>> Critchlow
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:53 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:34 PM Prof David West
>> <profwest at fastmail.fm <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
>>
>> schisms might be a better metaphor than civil war.
>>
>> you are correct that there is, and always has been,
>> "churn" among factions within both parties and any
>> significance given to a particular instance of that churn
>> e.g GOPS taking committee assignments away from a flake
>> or the Nevada state party instance — originate in the
>> mind of the one pointing at the event rather than
>> intrinsic to the event itself. One reason that I find
>> most political headlines to be examples of wishful
>> thinking rather than communicators of significance.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>>
>> Second that, it's why they call it spin, cause it makes your
>> head spin if you pay too much attention.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
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