[FRIAM] we are lost

[Marcus Daniels]

What’s needed are obvious consequences of climate change.   There’s no point in explaining something is coming, it needs to happen.   On the positive side, one way is with jobs for electric cars, and massive solar/wind generation systems.   On the negative side, giant fires and floods help, but it is like a dog that swiped something off the counter an hour ago and left the remnants in the living room.  They forgot what they did and don’t understand why you are mad.   They won’t even parse “I told you so.”   There is no one to reach in the Real American camp (call that Stupid Tribal America) and the Free America is too selfish to listen unless she feels the end is nigh.

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2021 12:41 PM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] we are lost



On 10/30/21 10:48 AM, Edward Angel wrote:
Reasonableness is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt many Democrats would consider their economic and social positions reasonable.
I agree with this but also wonder how the social/political discussion/playground can be shifted/reframed such that there is more room for alliances among subfactions, overlap of interests, etc.   It feels that our strong bimodal distribution across the axes implied in Eric's analysis of Packer's essay yields a no-man's land that is hard to cross.   As much as I wanted much more radical ideas/policies/actions from Biden, I think he *does* represent someone who can straddle all that better than Sanders or Warren might have.   I was a fan of Buttegeig because of that, while being more generationally relevant to those who will have to/get to live in the future we are paving with best intentions right now.


Getting primaried is an issue for all of them. Kinzinger is out. Cheney is in an enormous flight to get reniminated and Romney has to contend with far right opposition in Utah.

Ed
_______________________

Ed Angel
Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)                         angel at cs.unm.edu<mailto:angel at cs.unm.edu>
505-453-4944 (cell)                                        http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel


On Oct 30, 2021, at 8:12 AM, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com<mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Does anyone understand why a couple of reasonable Senate Republicans (Romney, Kinzinger, Cheney, ...) don't vote with the Democrats for the Biden bills?  Getting "primaried" isn't an issue for all of them.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:18 AM David Eric Smith <desmith at santafe.edu<mailto:desmith at santafe.edu>> wrote:

On Oct 29, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com<mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
excellent reference/article... thanks.
I agree, Marcus; thanks.  I was struck that not only do I wish I could write that way; I wish I could _think_ that way.  There are few thoughts I have had that aren’t already contained in Packer’s synthesis, in forms compatible with or better than the ones I would have given.  (Usually those with which I overlap aren’t different enough that I consider his take on them a lot “better”: mostly I think he chooses well the things I would front.  The “better” part mostly comes from a view that goes well beyond any that I could have commanded, and much better ability to arrange it all into a coherent layout.)
Is it a 4 component spring model, or is a four body problem in the orbital mechanics sense... probably no harder than the three body problem?
But I think the whole core of Packer’s article is that it is not merely 4, but 2.x 2.

There are axes of stress, and visible fractures along the first two principle components of stress.

The Left-Right axis has resolved itself, in the current era, into a kind of cultural-status axis, with educational markers being a big part.  But the axis is somehow more and different than only that, as it has historically moved through primacy of other dichotomies that can still be seen, while retaining its essential nature: Open vs. Closed, Cosmopolitan vs. Parochial, Communitarian vs. Dominance-ordered.  None of these seems quite adequate as I write them, but something along that line.

The Up-Down axis is probably about winners versus losers, itself existing along several dimensions that have become correlated.  It can be conditions of living, or hope versus despair w.r.t. power or agency as well as wealth or safety.  That is why Packer sets the Just up as an uprising against the Smart, and the Real as an uprising against the Free.  The nature of the uprising and the stress driving it is in a sense the same, and the establishment and the insurgency sort of remain within whichever silos they started in.  Mostly because that phase is still fairly young.

Anything that becomes organized, it seems, becomes available as a tool to entrench advantage in a setting where competition never relents.

Eric



.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives:
 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives:
5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/






.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam

un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

archives:

 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/

 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20211030/3d9031c6/attachment-0001.html>