[FRIAM] wtf I thought nuclear weapons was banned since...forever

[Steve Smith]

Pandora's cats are out of the bag and nothing will put them back.   I'm 
not religious but the whole "original sin" thing is a good allegory for 
how hard (impossible) it is to go backwards... even when that would be 
the very best thing to do (were it possible).   There is no "undo" 
button... entropy does increase... time does march forward, and "the 
only way out is through".   I can't even begin to guess what it would 
look like for humanity to collectively evolve (I suppose societally, not 
genetically/individually) to the point that we really can put down 
obviously dead-end ideations like "Mutual Assured Destruction" across 
the board.

Post Apocalyptic fiction suggests that the only remedy is an 
Atlantean-class collapse and "great forgetting" of the shite we know 
about being horribly cruel and destructive to one another (and by 
extension or vice-versa, the planet/universe?).    I *do* think that 
there is an "enlightened self-interest* path that is armatured around an 
expanding sense of "self" as well as "interest" AND "enlightenment", but 
the specifics are an "exercise for the student (as a collective).   I 
doubt we are going to sort this in my lifetime and maybe not in my 
grandchildren's, but that is no reason *not* to try to understand what 
that would look like and seek it.

993,765 steps forward and a similar number back?   Progress is 
incremental until it isn't.   Aphorisms 'R US.

On 8/28/22 7:17 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> Huh? shame...no just curious.
> I was just asking how and why agreeing not use nukes was agreed on not 
> to go there. In my head I was thinking; huh, wait a second.  Didn't 
> this get adressed several decades ago for the NPT( Nuclear non 
> prolification Treaty?).
> Is russia and india posturing to agree that nukes are just bad?
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 12:09 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> 
> wrote:
>
>     How do you propose dissuading countries from building these
>     weapons?  Shaming them on mailing lists?
>
>>     On Aug 27, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Gillian Densmore
>>     <gil.densmore at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>     https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/27/europe/russia-blocks-un-nuclear-disarmament-treaty-intl-hnk/index.html
>>
>>     Am I going loony, I had thought after ultra conservatives of
>>     different interpretation in communism had tried to murder (1991
>>     coup attempt) Gorbachev, and his part in draging russin into the
>>     Nuclear Weapons Ban and Test ban treaties that was that. Though
>>     was a we widdle youngling then I do clearly recall Gorby being
>>     all like: Un Embassy has good and poison free food, the coffees
>>     also good. and then latter: well Russia you'll stop being dicks
>>     about nukes and like it we won't make more are taking apart what
>>     we do have...
>>     so um why is this a thing?
>>
>>     So um cans someone please ELi5 wtf is going on with  a new
>>     nuclear ban and disarm. treaty and how was russia even allowed to
>>     cock block it?  is Putin really as insane as to attempt to nuke
>>     Ukrain? (probably). And  is this just him being a dick to pout
>>     and posture? Hell do they even anything  that can move those
>>     things? they're not exactly light.
>>
>>     Sigh. To russia: trolling about a nuclear winter or at least a
>>     MAD scenario just because Zelenskyy  doesn't like being murdered
>>     in his sleep KGB style doesn't make it ok to not  decide nukes==
>>     f'n stupid, can still make bombs. just not make a few Tsar Bombas
>>     because the rest of us want to live past the next few years.
>>     -ME for one
>>
>>
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