[FRIAM] Ukraine and NATO

[Steve Smith]

Patrick -

Always (more than) 2 sides to a topic... thanks for speaking to this.   
I think some of the analogies to our feelings about Soviet-Cuban 
relations is still relevant.   That doesn't mean that Putin/Russia isn't 
up to something ultimately really bad for "the West"...

I had Ukranian Colleagues who I've not been in touch with for about 5 
years.  We have mutual colleagues with whom they are still active so I 
get reports.

    https://domes.frontpictures.com/

I feel like I should check in, but they have always been very careful 
about discussing politics, especially "over the wire". They do a lot of 
business with Russia and one is ethnically Russian despite having been 
born and raised in the Ukraine.  They launched their business under 
funding from a Russian Oligarch but had a (mild?) falling out that led 
to a change of business as well as technical direction.

They were both young children during Chernobyl and teens during the end 
of the Soviet Union and the transition to Ukraine becoming an 
Independent nation.   They were both raised in professional class 
households with the commensurate advanced education and relative 
privilege.  They are technological and business powerhouses but 
definitely swim in an unfamiliar sea of Russian Oligarchical wealth and 
influence, corruption resistance, EuroRussianAsian business development, 
etc.

On 1/25/22 3:39 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> I first note that the US engineered a coup in the Ukraine to eject a 
> pro-Russian President.
>
> I add that NOT having any former Warsaw Bloc or former Soviet Republic 
> incorporated as a NATO state was explicitly promised prior to the USSR 
> peacefully disintegrating.
>
> And how many nations has the US invaded since Gorbachev’s premiership?
>
> —— Par
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>
>     I think the issue is, like Sweden and Finland, they have the role
>     to Russia as buffers to U.S. medium range missiles.
>
>     > On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:37 AM, glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>     >
>     > Why Ukraine is still not a NATO member: who is to blame and
>     what to do?
>     > https://uacrisis.org/en/why-ukraine-is-still-not-in-nato
>     >
>     > Does anyone here have any better understanding of why Ukraine
>     membership is so "toxic"? Is this simply a disagreement between
>     hawks and doves wrt Putin's dream of a new USSR? I seem to
>     remember back when Crimea was first occupied by Russia that nearly
>     half the people really did identify more as Russians than
>     Ukrainians. Ignoring that polls are fraught, is there a sense that
>     a significant bloc Ukrainians, themselves, might disapprove of
>     joining NATO?
>     >
>     > --
>     > glen
>     > Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
>     >
>     >
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