[FRIAM] health care logistics
Frank Wimberly
wimberly3 at gmail.com
Thu Jan 27 21:46:14 EST 2022
Did I hear/read correctly that the Salton Sea in the Southern California
desert is above the world's largest Lithium deposit? I believe that body
of water is useless for most purposes.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:36 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nick,
>
> My daughter says,
>
> "It is a fourth declension noun like apparatus. The plural is the same as
> the singular, I believe."
>
> Frank
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 9:47 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank God for not trimming. I was able to catch up on this … um …. Far
>> flung conversation in one go without opening a thousand messages. Thank
>> You Marcus.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have only one comment: Frank, I think it’s *feteri. *Ask you
>> daughter to make sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Thompson
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:30 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to trim everything, but I tend to get accusations that was trying
>> to judo chop people and take them out of context. When really, I'm just
>> trying to delete all distracting context. I think that larding is
>> ridiculous. Reasonable people can soak up the meaning and respond without
>> torturing things a word at a time. If that doesn't work, then there is
>> probably bad faith.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of glen <
>> gepropella at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 9:17 AM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, that's a good point. And it's relevant to SteveS' comment on the
>> metaphorical neutering of stereotypically identified "men". (That category
>> also would include the "lean in" females, i.e. those who adopt man-ish
>> behaviors to combat systemic sexism.) Metoo and cancel culture are taken as
>> Black Mirror to most of the macho conservatives I meet at the pub. But to
>> me it seems more like freedom. It's a negative liberty, which conservatives
>> and libertarians don't understand well, even though they claim to base
>> their ideology on it. Freedom from being forced to drive a 4 wheel drive
>> vehicle because, well, the government builds roads with your damned taxes.
>> Freedom from being mugged in the parking lot because the government pays
>> police with your damned taxes. Freedom from having to filter my water
>> because the government pays water treatment engineers to build plants and
>> pipe potable water to your faucet with your damned taxes.
>>
>> The metaphorical neutering in progress like metoo and cancel culture is
>> the freedom from being pelted with shit tossed at you by bottom-feeding
>> bullies. Now if we could only cancel American Football, I'd be happy. >8^D
>> ... such an offensive game.
>>
>> p.s. Y'all need to trim your posts. I just trimmed, literally, 20k of
>> FriAM signature fodder from that post. Electricity doesn't grow on trees!
>>
>> On 1/25/22 15:37, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> > For me, meat-in-vats or Impossible burger tech. is more to address
>> cruelty. To examine what we do and how -- with apologies to Glen -- it
>> corrupts us. I think Ezra Klein put it well.
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html <
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html>
>> >
>> > A friend remarked on how her perception of the importance of sex has
>> changed as she got older. I really think a lot of our perceptions are
>> driven in that way, and they don't MEAN anything. I think these sundry
>> appetites are very likely tunable, perhaps with some preceding machine
>> learning protocol to learn the right neurons to stimulate. To some that's
>> Black Mirror. To me it seems more like freedom.
>> >
>> > Marcus
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith <
>> sasmyth at swcp.com>
>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:17 PM
>> > *To:* friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>
>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>> > On 1/25/22 11:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> >> https://goodmeat.co/process <https://goodmeat.co/process>
>> >>
>> > 15 years ago, my daughter did her PhD research in HPV... a great deal
>> of her time was spent "cloning human skin and giving it warts". She was
>> (is) a died-in-the-wool vegetarian and humanitarian and she was a little
>> squeamish about that aspect of her work, but couldn't put her finger on why
>> exactly. She gifted me a copy of the biography of Henrietta Lacks which
>> was fascinating. I don't know if her skin cells were HeLa, I see lots of
>> progress in the field of inducing skin cells to develop into STEM cells
>> (and even into embryos!) so I assume it was possible and perhaps preferred
>> for the same reason HeLa is used in other fields.
>> >
>> >
>> > I myself have been mostly vegetarian most of my adulthood and while I
>> still can be persuaded that meat-eating is something humans have evolved to
>> be good at, I believe as omnivores, we are also very capable of living well
>> on a vegetarian and even vegan diets. When I have deviated from
>> vegetarianism, it has been the usual suspects starting with bacon and
>> hamburgers but including chicken and steak. Most of my peers who avoid
>> red-meat don't seem to understand that every chicken-life only yields a few
>> 10-piece nugget McMeals or a couple of fajita plates. I started my
>> vegetarianism as a boycott against industrial meat-production and the
>> animal cruelty implicit in it, but now it is augmented/dominated by my
>> assumptions about planet-scale sustainability of same.
>> >
>> >
>> > I think "growing meat in a vat" is no better (or worse) of a solution
>> to our global problems than replacing 4000lb ICE vehicles with 5000lb
>> EVs... while it might be "a good start" or part of a "transition
>> strategy" it ignores the first-order misunderstanding of the carrying
>> capacity of our biosphere (as discussed in earlier/alternate threads
>> here). Sure, if the 1% ers are the only ones that drive (Electric)
>> Hummers and eat 16oz Steaks (3D printed from vat grown muscle/bone/fat?)
>> daily (even weekly) then these solutions are probably close to optimal for
>> the moment (decade or two). But that is not the world I (want to) live in,
>> and one would hope 99% would not want to either (though there is an
>> aspirational logic to richy-rich wannabes who support/promote obscene
>> wealth because they imagine they themselves are on an arc to that kind of
>> imbalance).
>> >
>> >
>> > Regarding meat-chickens. When COVID hit, the first thing I did was
>> run down to my local farm store and adopt 12 sex-linked chicks to raise for
>> eggs. I avoided hatching my own from fertilized eggs mainly because I
>> didn't want to take responsibility for the roughly 50% male chickens I
>> would get. Sex-Linked chicks are easily sexed because their gross
>> appearance is significantly different between genders. I understand that
>> the bulk of the males "culled" to send only laying hens to the likes of me
>> are pushed into the meat-production industry, though I know in some
>> contexts DaveW's and EricS's images of culled/discarded male chicks
>> (smokestacks like holocaust camps) are very real... Most other meat
>> animals are "harvested" young, as they reach their full growth while
>> remaining tender. Veal is an extreme version of this. Veal and Pate'
>> seem like good candidates for vat-growing.
>> >
>> >
>> > My original point about neutering (male) pets and work animals was more
>> about blunting testosterone-driven behaviour (i.e. aggression, dominance,
>> and confinement resistance). The Libertarians here may want to point out
>> that human males are being neutered culturally and circumstantially (and I
>> don't entirely disagree, and I think the resulting dissonance is a huge
>> problem for society).
>> >
>> >
>> > Grumble,
>> >
>> > - Steve
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> <
>> mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf
>> of Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com
>> <sasmyth at swcp.com>>
>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:25 AM
>> >> *To:* friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>>
>> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>>
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 1/25/22 8:48 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>> >>> Boneless chicken breasts come from roosters?
>> >>
>> >> Top hit on my google... not sure if US is very different from AU:
>> >>
>> >> https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/ <
>> https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/>
>> >>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>> >>>
>> >>> 505 670-9918
>> >>> Santa Fe, NM
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:45 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com <
>> mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com <sasmyth at swcp.com>>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> We neuter many/most male pets and beasts of burden, slaughter
>> many of them young (e.g. this is where most of our beef and chicken come
>> from).
>> >>>
>> >>> We do this for various reasons that are not entirely unrelated to
>> the larger conversation here...
>> >>>
>> >>> On 1/25/22 7:35 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:
>> >>>> Never too late, Merle.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Merle Lefkoff <
>> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com
>> <merlelefkoff at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yes, they should have drowned the boys.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:27 AM Frank Wimberly <
>> wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com <wimberly3 at gmail.com>>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century
>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ---
>> >>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> >>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> >>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 505 670-9918
>> >>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 7:16 AM Merle Lefkoff <
>> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com
>> <merlelefkoff at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Dave is right. Development experts have known for a
>> long time that when girls get educated and women hold jobs outside the home
>> they are much more likely to control childbearing. However, the culture
>> must change everywhere, and it happens quite slowly with lots of pushback.
>> Check out the new protest and direct action movement that's happening with
>> young men demonstrating in the streets in S. Korea. ("A Vicious
>> Anti-Feminist Backlash Stuns South Korea", Globe And Mail, 1/22.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:40 AM Prof David West <
>> profwest at fastmail.fm <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm <profwest at fastmail.fm>>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It has been known for a long time that the most
>> effective means of birth / population control was educating girls, followed
>> closely by empowering girls, e.g., with micro-loans to start businesses. I
>> remember studying this topic way back in the 80s in my anthropology
>> graduate program.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> davew
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Marcus Daniels
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Merle wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> < China's population has stopped
>> growing--primarily because there are more urban educated workers,
>> especially women. >
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Estimate in Hawken's book was the 6th largest
>> potential reduction for CO2 drawdown came from educating girls. His
>> reference was:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1206964 <
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fdoi%2f10.1126%2fscience.1206964&c=E,1,dhZqId6BmX_lZAkiZ4KqytELCYK4cwA4xLz977cmeLfMrTYrhP3BmklQPOLEU4fwWN1lRQM2UxbXsMWAXVEDer4Yykb7kz6tIFR9uWjkYw,,&typo=1
>> >
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <
>> mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <friam-bounces at redfish.com>>> on behalf
>> of Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com
>> <merlelefkoff at gmail.com>>>
>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 9:40 PM
>> >>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>> Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>>>
>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> China's population has stopped growing--primarily
>> because there are more urban educated workers, especially women.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly <
>> wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com <wimberly3 at gmail.com>>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Excellent, Marcus.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would
>> have be significant. Two problems, "God" has tricks for making babies. As
>> for 1 child per couple didn't they "terminate" some babies (not fetuses,
>> feti?), particularly females? My impression is that their population has
>> grown substantially notwithstanding those policies.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Frank
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---
>> >>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> >>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> >>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 505 670-9918
>> >>>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels <
>> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com <marcus at snoutfarm.com>>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Before I launch into a diatribe about why
>> the hell we can't agree to basic, never mind interesting things: I'd just
>> like to report that the James Webb telescope is in L2 orbit. Score one for
>> the negotiating, patient, subtlety-appreciating scientists and their
>> counterparts in government.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Marcus
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <
>> mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <friam-bounces at redfish.com>>> on behalf
>> of David Eric Smith <desmith at santafe.edu <mailto:desmith at santafe.edu
>> <desmith at santafe.edu>>>
>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM
>> >>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
>> Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com
>> <friam at redfish.com>>>
>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care
>> logistics
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> You know, as I read your characterization,
>> Marcus, it took me back to Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and
>> the role of the Rothschilds and other big Jewish quasi-stateless fixer
>> families in relation to the feudal lords. Fussy and indirect seems somehow
>> very close to the right picture of the stateless ones navigating always
>> through the cracks and seams, compared to the blunt moves of the ones who
>> had states.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I have some discomfort that this doesn’t
>> quite map. Yet it seems not fully dissimilar.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eric
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus
>> Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com
>> <marcus at snoutfarm.com>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> SFI sponsorship seems like very much a
>> fideistic declaration. It would be interesting to see how that influence
>> network feeds into a D.C. influencer network and real money. There are
>> some linkages, like Brookings, but leverage-wise it all seems much softer
>> than with LANL and the DOE. And it all seems so fussy and indirect
>> compared to slapping down a few billion dollars to build a Starship.
>> That's the appeal of Musk: I'm f'ing doing this.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <friam-bounces at redfish.com>>> on
>> behalf of glen <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com
>> <gepropella at gmail.com>>>
>> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM
>> >>>>>>> *To:* friam at redfish.com <
>> mailto:friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>> <friam at redfish.com <
>> mailto:friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>>>
>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care
>> logistics
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Well, that ain't true, either. Like
>> Epstein, when you "invest" in the SFI or people like Steven Pinker or Bill
>> Clinton, you're simply transferring from one store to another ... buying
>> influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling
>> tool into a broad spectrum simulation tool, they are not only buying a
>> (questionable) piece of software; they're buying *leverage* over people's
>> salaries, loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will* see that money again, perhaps
>> much less of it, depending on the efficiency of the transaction, or in
>> fringe storage types (able to get past the receptionist after eating
>> over-priced peri-Mexican food in order to have tea with smart people).
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> >>>>>>> > Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness'
>> sake! They'll never see THAT money again!
>>
>> --
>> glen
>> Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
>>
>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:
>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:
>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20220127/2aa5414b/attachment.html>
More information about the Friam
mailing list