[FRIAM] Wolpert - discussion thread placeholder

[Marcus Daniels]

Was just driving the backroads of Oregon in a Tesla on autopilot.

Tesla autopilot knows a lot.  For example, it understands the difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle.   On one occasion it mistook the sun low in the sky for a large yellow streetlight.  When it is confused it simply requires you to take the wheel.   While it never seems to miss speed signs, it will respect the driver’s speed setting.  Autopilot still requires the driver to check in frequently, so it is mostly still a novelty.  One thing it is better at than I am, is identifying deceleration.   It warns only if you don’t see it, not if you do.

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 11:19 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Wolpert - discussion thread placeholder

My erstwhile boss Raj Reddy was in the same Department with Simon and Newell and knew their work well.  He said that it was relatively easy to create a computer program that did the work of a professor that the real challenge would be to develop an autonomous bulldozer.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022, 11:37 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm<mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
Wolpert's questions are fantastic. Thanks glen for prompting this discussion.

Re: question one about the "chasm with minimal cognitive capabilities necessary ..."

I have two major problems with the assumptions behind this question.

First, the assumption that Godel, Einstein, and Beethoven exemplify 'greater' (in some sense of that word) cognitive abilities. This is analogous the the AI notions advanced by Newel and Simon that they had succeeded in creating a thinking machine because the thinking reproduced was that of university professors. They thought that the way they thought was the apex of human thinking. A much greater challenge— still avoided, even by the most sophisticated ML approaches — is how a baby is able to learn and extract meaning from a chaotic cacophony of inputs.

Second, that the cognitive capabilities of pre-Holocene humans were "minimal." The most pernicious myth with regard our long ago ancestors derive from either Rousseau or Hobbes—both of whom conjectured, with no evidence, that our ancestors existed in a primitive state—Edenic for Rousseau, and brutish for Hobbes, but simplistically primitive.

Quite the opposite was true. The world was far more complex and challenging, with everything from social relations to 'food chemistry' (e.g. brewing beer) to explanations of why everything in the world was as it was being highly variable across population groups and constantly in flux. A bit analogous to the baby making sense of the world.

Humans today are able to "survive" primarily because of tens of thousands of years accumulation of "culture." Because we have that resource, we do not have to figure out if that nice striped quadruped over there will eat me; or, if that red berry will kill me but the other red berry is essential for a great BLT.

It might be possible to make an argument: Godel, et. al., were able to do what they did because 'culture' reduced the daily (hourly, millisecond-ly) cognitive load such that it was possible to put the 'surplus' to work on issues of math and music; but, not that there was any kind of qualitative or quantitative difference in cognitive abilities of humans then and now.

to be continued ...

davew


On Sat, Sep 10, 2022, at 8:05 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> DaveW -
>> Just wanted to put this here as a placeholder for future conversation as I would like to take up Wolpert's questions even though I am not "miraculous" per glen's invitation.  I do need a day to two to read and pose questions /make observations, but others might be ready to chime in with observations right away.
>
> always ready to "chime" at the drop of a dime here...
>
> I look forward to your more considered responses.  I hope my own chimes
> aren't more mud than water...
>
>
>
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