[FRIAM] metathesis

Fri Dec 1 13:38:04 EST 2023

Nothing could be more calculated to bring an old pedant out from under his
rock than this thread:

Mine is the use of "incredible" to mean "excellent".   As in, "Don't you
think Rachel Maddow is an incredible commentator?"  There was an Australian
Philosopher, David Stove,  who wrote a book called, Popper and After, which
talked about how modern thought seemed devoted to neutralizing success
words ... such as "credibile", for instance.  Orwell, saw it as a step
toward Fascism.   FASCHISM.  Shirley, I jest.  Faschism could never happen
in the Unite States!

i used to faint-dead when people used "inform" to mean "shape" as in,"My
thinking  was informed by Glen's concept, Steelmanning," but I am trying to
get over that.  Turns out it's a perfectly valid meaning of the verb, and I
don't have a leg to stand on.   I still hate it, but I hate it quietly. I
don't object when people say it.  I just think about ways to kill them
later.

Beware,

Nick

Nick,

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:18 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:

> Glen -
>
> I appreciate that you shared with us your "handicap" which reminds me of
> your self-report a few years back of tryptophobia.
>
> I also am triggered by both of these.   Your examples of Nukular/Nuclear
> and Axe/Ask are obviously pretty familiar.   I respond to them pretty
> pre-consciously without overtly reacting, which kicks me into a new
> register of reflective judgement: to whit "what does this choice/not-choice
> of this particular articulation imply about the character and values of
> this person?".
>
> From a 2002 article in the NYT
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/weekinreview/confronting-noo-kyuh-luhr-proliferation.html>
> :
>
> *Yet the use of ''NOO-kyuh-luhr'' is not uncommon, even among prominent
> and educated people, including four of the nation's last 10 presidents:
> Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was widely admonished for it; Gerald R. Ford;
> Jimmy Carter, who did graduate work in nuclear physics, and also used
> ''NOO-kee-yer''; and now George W. Bush.*
>
> I was not particularly bothered by or aware of this mispronunciation until
> the constant hammering of GW Bush to the tune of his
> (Cheney/Rumsfeldt/Wolfowitz?) drumbeats leading up to the Iraq War.   I
> attributed it to a combination of his (affected or adopted?) Texas
> drawl/slang and his (apparent?) willful ignorance of science (as a
> dogwhistle to redneck/populists?)   I still hear it that way if the speaker
> is the least bit leaning toward that end of the spectrum.
>
> I didn't notice the Axe/Ask division until my father started listening to
> Rush Limbaugh in the 90s and shifted from a mild (applauding Archie Bunker)
> populist white racist to a more convicted one.   "Axe" really triggered him
> when he heard it, and I think it was because it could be a marker of AAVE
> (aka "ebonics") which I think for him was more of a resentment of Urban
> Poverty (vs the Rural Poverty he came from) than specifically the racist
> implications (though it was baked into his upbringing/roots even if he
> preached anti-racist or at least pro-tolerance to me growing up).
>
> Your bringing up of this phenomena (and in particular "metathesis") lead
> me (as it often does) to take a quick dive into a rabbit hole and "larn me
> some stuff".   Thank you.
>
> In closing, I'm fascinated by the relationship between phobias and
> philias, which might be a reformulation of addictions vs allergies.    Your
> tryptophobia exhibits as more of a tryptophilia in me... a fascination
> bordering (but I don't give over to) on fetish.   The dirty little corner
> of youtube dedicated to "pimple popping" and "blackhead removal", for
> example whispers to me when I trip into it's perimeters.
>
> I also find unusual dialects of American (as well a the broad British
> Commonwealth) fascinating (bordering on philia if not fetish).    And I
> find most "southern Cracker" variants a marker of willful ignorance (or
> ignorant willfulness?) which I attribute to my main exposure coming through
> my Appalachian Cousins who are generally moderately educated (none failed
> to graduate HS that I know of and some even obtained PhDs).   To complement
> that, *most* are diehard born-again Xtian types who have to work "have you
> accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior" into any extended
> encounter.   So when they lace their (otherwise educated or sophisticated)
> conversation with Southern American English pronunciations and idioms (e.g.
> all y'all) and "Jahysuz" references I cringe and lower my estimation of
> their character, intelligence, and general sensibilities by a notch or
> two...  but the top half of my brain seems to know better and renormalizes
> as best it can...
>
> I've a good friend who said it well: "Don't mistake an accent for a
> personality".  She wass mostly referencing her predilection for falling for
> men (and women) with exotic accents.
>
>
> On 12/1/23 10:07 AM, glen wrote:
>
> I made the mistake of confessing my handicap to a friend. Now he
> purposefully says nukular as a kind of Castañedan slap on the back, or the
> master's whack with the stick. He knows it knocks me out of whatever canal
> I was in. It's irritating, but a good thing overall.
>
> Actually, it started with the pronunciation of diacetyl, which most of my
> friends at the brewery pronounce "die-ASS-uh-tul". That's another one that
> doesn't give me the hiccups. My Mansplainer homunculus doesn't even notice.
> But I did get a chance to discuss it with the owner, wherein I suggested
> that "ASS-uh-tal" is a chemical group that's fundamentally different from
> acetyl. And, even though there's almost zero chance of anyone *ever* saying
> the word "diacetal", it's still reasonable to prefer the more common
> "die-uh-SEE-tul". After all, nobody says "ASS-uh-tul-kole-een" or
> "ASS-uh-tul-een torch". On the other hand, hangovers are discussed a lot in
> places like breweries ... with taprooms at least. And acetaldehyde is
> (almost) pronounced like "ASS-uh-tul-dee-hide" (with some wiggle around
> "tul" vs "tal").  So, again, there is some slight reason prefer one
> pronunciation over the other.
>
> No such luck with nukular. Any desire to correct someone when they say it
> that way is empty (and actually false) pedantry. I still hate it, though.
>
> On 12/1/23 07:28, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> My dad was a nuclear engineer and nukular has always bothered me greatly.
> I try to help people to say it right by telling them to think "new clear".
> I'm not sure that would help Bush.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 8:21 AM glen <gepropella at gmail.com
> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> <gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     So, on the death of The War Criminal, I've been reflecting on the most
> irritating thing to me about George W Bush's stint: nukular. Sure. It's
> irritating that he started a war for no good reason. If we learn anything
> from Kissinger's treatment by the press, it's that those sorts of things
> don't actually matter.
>
>     But the way you pronounce "nuclear"? That matters ... to me, anyway.
> I've managed to grind off the burrs in my thinking when someone says "axe"
> instead of "ask", glottals their Ts, etc. But I just can't get over
> nukular. Every time someone says it that way, whatever it was I was doing
> or thinking goes straight out the fscking window. With, say, "axe", I can
> actually do it myself without feeling shame. Same with t-flapping. (And
> vocal fry.)
>
>     Wikipedia gives me a nice list of triggerable attributes of language:
> metathesis, elision, epenthesis, flapping, assimilation, dissimilation,
> etc. My request, here, is for examples from anyone that rankle you or that
> you've overcome. Presumably, the more aware I am with others' struggles
> with such, the less I'll be triggered by my own.
>
>
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