[FRIAM] Sleep trackers

Wed Mar 20 14:43:06 EDT 2024

  * Nick -
  * I don't know the specifics of your sleep difficulties but  I have
    always been interested in sleep and perhaps dreaming even moreso...
  * The following "Great Course" I listened to from Audible a few months
    ago was really fascinating and covered the whole territory from
    history to contemporary research in both human and animal sleep
    science.
  *

      o

          Secrets of Sleep Science: From Dreams to Disorders

      o By:Craig H. Heller
        <https://www.audible.com/search?searchAuthor=Craig+H.+Heller&ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_author_1&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd>,The
        Great Courses
        <https://www.audible.com/author/The-Great-Courses/B06XPWVHFB?ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_author_2&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd>
      o Narrated by:Craig H. Heller
        <https://www.audible.com/search?searchNarrator=Craig+H.+Heller&ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_narrator_1&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd>
      o Series:The Great Courses: Better Living
        <https://www.audible.com/series/The-Great-Courses-Better-Living-Audiobooks/B00DLM6DD2?ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_series_1&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd>
      o

I myself have used both phone apps (you leave the phone on your bed, for 
example under your pillow)  and fitness (e.g. fitbit) trackers.   I 
haven't tried the former for years and found them (at the time) to be 
somewhat limited, but mildly informative (based on detecting micro/macro 
inertial motions?).   The latter (several brands over the years) have 
gotten progressively better.

By better, I mean that what the app (connected to the band) reports fits 
my overnight experience.   It has sometimes surprised me,  but overall 
it mostly confirms what I already knew.   I am perhaps an unusual case, 
seeking the liminal sleep states (hypnogogic/hypnopompic) for the 
dreaming that comes with it (perhaps I should just give over to the 
popular pursuit through psychedelics?)...   My idea of a "good night's 
sleep" involves a lot of drifting in/out... the trackers don't always 
report this well, reporting long periods of deep sleep which I 
experienced as otherwise, but probably not leading to any changes in my 
"stillness"?

Biphasic Cycles:

I don't know if this is relevant to you but I've recommended it to other 
friends who began to experience segmented or biphasic sleep, 
particularly as they got older... At Day's Close: Night in Times Past 
<https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393329018>   by Roger Ekirch.    I found 
it (and the broad historical and contemporary research) around the 
phenomena of (typically) sleeping from soon after sundown until midnight 
(plus or minus), waking for a few hours, and then completing a day's 
sleep/rest into the morning, compelling.    In most cases, my friends 
reported that their waking after a few hours of sleep, unable to go back 
to sleep easily, as disturbing.   I wanted to relieve them of the 
disturbance by helping them (possibly) normalize the "midnight vigil" 
and put it to good use.

Many of us (perhaps) have experienced waking late in the night unable to 
return to sleep using reading to put us back to sleep. This is the 
closest I have come to the biphasic Ekirch and others describe... 
particularly when I have been reading an acutely fascinating book (fic 
or non) which then might capture me for an hour or two...

In college, after my first child was born and I was very very busy 
already, I found that I could perform better by going to sleep at dark 
(with the baby) and then when she needed midnight attention, staying up 
doing homework or paperwork for my business for an hour or two, I was 
much sharper then typically than if I simply stayed up late or got up 
early.   I know this doesn't apply to you directly (nor to me today) but 
I felt it validated the idea of biphasic sleep cycles.

In any case, best wishes with your sleep endeavors!

- Steve

On 3/20/24 8:47 AM, Alexander Rasmus wrote:
> Nick,
>
> If you look around in google scholar you can find comparisons between 
> smart watches and medical devices for monitoring sleep stages, e.g., 
> https://mhealth.jmir.org/2019/6/e13384?utm_campaign=JMIR_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=TrendMD 
> <https://mhealth.jmir.org/2019/6/e13384?utm_campaign=JMIR_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=TrendMD>
>
> In general, you should be fairly skeptical of specifics but trends may 
> still be useful. The only way to establish whether it's reliable in 
> your case is through detailed comparison between your own observations 
> of sleep behavior/outcomes and the watch. This is likely to be a 
> useful exercise regardless. I use one, and the sleep quality number is 
> generally fairly good.
>
> Jochen, I am sorry for your loss.
>
> Best,
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:12 PM Nicholas Thompson 
> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Everybody I know sleeps badly.  Has any of you had any lu from
>     heartrate?  ck with a sleeptracker.  Did it teach you anything you
>     did not already know?    I borrowed a fit bit from my daughter and
>     it tells me my sleep efficiency is lousy, and I don't bet much rem
>     or deep sleep.  Does it know what it is talking about.   Can you
>     get all of that.
>
>     Any experience to share out there?
>
>     Nick
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