[FRIAM] Abducktion

Sun Aug 9 14:50:09 EDT 2020

Agreed!

No sé nada aquí.  No swimming here, right?

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 12:34 PM Diane McCorkle <dianemccorkle at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I agree with you, Dad, but have never seen “se gusta.”
>
> Gustar is a verb with an implicit direct object:  el gusto.  Gustar=dar
> gusto.
>
> It could be like other intransitive verbs that can be made passive with
> “se”:  no se nada aquí.
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:47 AM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's usually obvious from.the context who/what "it" is.  People do say
>> "yo gusto" but like "yo te gusto?"  Do you like me?  And sometimes to be
>> cute "tu gustas?"  which is incorrect.  These examples are not passive
>> voice.  "Se gusta?" meaning "is it liked?" is passive voice.  Any
>> disagreements will be referred to my daughter, the Spanish teacher.
>>
>> An improvement on my earlier comment "se me cayó la taza" would be "the
>> cup was fallen on me" which is also passive voice and also makes
>> responsibility ambiguous.
>>
>> Every time I write "passive", Android mail client auto-completes it as
>> "passive aggressive".
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 4:43 PM Edward Angel <angel at cs.unm.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Literally it says “it pleases me” which is the passive voice leading to
>>> the question who is “it?"
>>> _______________________
>>>
>>> Ed Angel
>>>
>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/New+Mexico+1017+Sierra+Pinon+Santa+Fe,+NM+87501?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/New+Mexico+1017+Sierra+Pinon+Santa+Fe,+NM+87501?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/New+Mexico+1017+Sierra+Pinon+Santa+Fe,+NM+87501?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   angel at cs.unm.edu
>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:30 PM, Gary Schiltz <gary at naturesvisualarts.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm no grammar expert, even in my native English, but I don't believe
>>> "me gusta el cafe" is using passive voice. It literally says "coffee
>>> pleases me". Comments, Frank? But then, I may be confused about what
>>> passive voice is.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 5:23 PM Angel Edward <edward.angel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Isn’t it a consequence of the routine use of the passive voice in
>>>> Spanish as in “me gusta” instead of “yo gusto?”
>>>>
>>>> The passive voice is pretty much gone in textbooks but I occasionally I
>>>> get objections from Spanish speakers who claim my textbook can’t be serious
>>>> because I don’t use the passive voice.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>> __________
>>>>
>>>> Ed Angel
>>>>
>>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/New+Mexico+1017+Sierra+Pinon+Santa+Fe,+NM+87501?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/New+Mexico+1017+Sierra+Pinon+Santa+Fe,+NM+87501?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/New+Mexico+1017+Sierra+Pinon+Santa+Fe,+NM+87501?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   edward.angel at gmail.com
>>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Gary Schiltz <gary at NaturesVisualArts.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Despite living in a Spanish speaking country for 12 years, I still
>>>> struggle mightily with Spanish grammar. This is mainly due to laziness on
>>>> my part, as well as lack of necessity to immerse myself in the language
>>>> (there are a lot of English speakers here, not to mention expat groups on
>>>> Facebook in English). Still, Spanish is *so* much more consistent in all
>>>> respects than English - pronunciation especially. But the reflexive verbs
>>>> are still somewhat of a mystery to me. I've wondered exactly the same thing
>>>> that Frank mentioned: does "the cup fell itself on me" and "the pencil
>>>> broke itself on mf" represent desire to avoid responsibility? Maybe even
>>>> blame the victim? Ouch! Your nose nearly broke my fist!
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:06 PM Tom Johnson <tom at jtjohnson.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Or the equally famous Spanish phrase, "The pencil broke itself."  A
>>>>> phrase which you think I would remember.
>>>>> TJ
>>>>>
>>>>> ============================================
>>>>> Tom Johnson - tom at jtjohnson.com
>>>>> Institute for Analytic Journalism   --     Santa Fe, NM USA
>>>>> 505.577.6482(c)                                    505.473.9646(h)
>>>>> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org/>
>>>>> *Check out It's The People's Data
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>>>>>
>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:55 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In Spanish if you drop your cup you say, "See me cayó la taza".  A
>>>>>> literal word--for-word  translation is "The cup fell itself on me".  Some
>>>>>> people say this is an effort to avoid responsibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 9:01 AM Barry MacKichan <
>>>>>> barry.mackichan at mackichan.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very much so. We hired a grad student a long time ago (he stayed
>>>>>>> with us until he retired). He wrote great Pascal programs. He wrote great
>>>>>>> Pascal programs in C++, and in JavaScript. The effect of your first
>>>>>>> programming language on style, idioms, and your feelings about recursion
>>>>>>> and encapsulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> —Barry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6 Aug 2020, at 23:24, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nah.  He means more than that.  Even ordinary languages predispose
>>>>>>> users to one kind of discourse or another.  I assume that programming
>>>>>>> languages do the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>
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>>
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