[FRIAM] lurking

[Curt McNamara]

People game because the 'game world' is consistent. If you do the correct
things, you always get the reward.

In contrast, the real world isn't fair. You can be the hardest worker yet
someone else gets the promotion.

Paraphrase of 'Reality Is Broken' by McGonigal.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Reality_Is_Broken.html?id=yiOtN_kDJZgC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1

     Curt

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 10:10 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Before the thread leaves games for consciousness ...
>
> A couple of years back, World of Warcraft passed the 1 billion player hour
> mark. That is just one game. A survey somewhere  around that time claimed
> that self identified gamers averaged 30+ hours a week engaged in games. The
> low end of the curve was 20 hours a week (if you did not play that much, I
> guess you did not consider yourself a gamer) and the high end was well over
> 100 hours a week.
>
> The question of the day (then): why do people spend enjoy games so much
> more than real life and especially work life? There was a 'movement', under
> the umbrella label of "gamification" to apply ideas/principles supposedly
> gleamed from analysis of why games were so compelling and apply those ideas
> to education and work in specific, but also life in general.
>
> I have half-dozen or so books on this subject and will look them up if
> anyone is interested.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > My point was that the cost to probe some memory address is low.   And
> > all there is, is I/O and memory.
> >
> >  It does become difficult to track thousands of addresses at once:
> > Think of a debugger that has millions of watchpoints.   However, one
> > could have diagnostics compiled in to the code to check invariants from
> > time to time.   I don't know why Nick says there is no privilege.
> > There can be complete privilege.   Extracting meaning from that access
> > is rarely easy, of course.  Just as debugging any given problem can be
> > hard.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> > Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 3:20 PM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking
> >
> > Literal self-awareness is possible. The flaw in your argument is that
> > "self" is ambiguous in the way you're using it. It's not ambiguous in
> > the way me or Marcus intend it. You can see this nicely if you elide
> > "know" from your argument.  We know nothing. The machine knows nothing.
> > Just don't use the word "know" or the concept it references.  There
> > need not be a model involved, either, only sensors and things to be
> > sensed.
> >
> > Self-sensing means there is a feedback loop between the sensor and the
> > thing it senses. So, the sensor measures the sensed and the sensed
> > measures the sensor. That is self-awareness. There's no need for any of
> > the psychological hooha you often object to. There's no need for
> > privileged information *except* that there has to be a loop. If
> > anything is privileged, it's the causal loop.
> >
> > The real trick is composing multiple self-self loops into something
> > resembling what we call a conscious agent. We can get to the uncanny
> > valley with regular old self-sensing control theory and robotics.
> > Getting beyond the valley is difficult: https://youtu.be/D8_VmWWRJgE A
> > similar demonstration is here: https://youtu.be/7ncDPoa_n-8
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/1/21 2:08 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> >> In fact, strictly speaking, I think literal self-awareness is
> impossible.  Because, whatever a machine knows about itself, it is a MODEL
> of itself based on well situated sensors of its own activities, just like
> you are and I am.  There is no privileged access, just bettah or wussah
> access.
> >
> > --
> > "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
> > ☤>$ uǝlƃ
> >
> >
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