[FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Fri Dec 16 17:38:23 EST 2022
> I doubt the answer would be interesting, but one could give it as a
> Fermi problem to an undergraduate geology class (who don’t do Fermi
> problems; but the physicists won’t know any geology).
>
> Terawatt-scale extraction of geothermal energy will increase the
> effective conduction of heat from the bottom of the mantle (directly
> or indirectly) to the surface, increasing the rate at which the solid
> inner core grows by freezing of the molten outer core.
>
> How much, for how long, can we extract, until the inner core grows
> enough that the geodynamo shuts down, ending the Earth’s magnetic
> field, the van Allen belts etc., and exposing the atmosphere directly
> to spalling by protons from the solar wind?
>
> And you thought the shutdown of the north-atlantic thermohaline was a
> problem!
and isn't that what happened on Barsoom?
>
>> On Dec 16, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>>
>> I do like the microwave energy transmission idea. I seem to recall
>> that https://www.quaise.energy
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quaise.energy&c=E,1,i7KEoFhj8RfmmzQxSzRWIo92uxgI5qwES5F0AiZpxtIaxDFv_9qM1S_k1favS9oro6Wc-xxxdGI9SSqT_pRtOWM7cMDB5qtpDbFM6o789dwKS3l8&typo=1> got
>> their first test device from the Air Force in Albuquerque that was
>> experimenting with the devices for crowd control. Think of it! 5G
>> that has a high-power beam forming mode that could disable
>> pedestrians at any location!
>>
>> https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1169951
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.osti.gov%2fservlets%2fpurl%2f1169951&c=E,1,ZpWB376zypp1vASQJNnUNSZxvEnVc1oR_uKG_sashcRaqhpd3fAWec8sbN5HbDQwMctWbPfEMFUisetxm287Z4MSW7JV0c-w3G3MtIR_Mp2rEAo,&typo=1>
>> Deep Geothermal Drilling Using Millimeter Wave Technology (Final
>> Technical Research Report) (Technical Report) | OSTI.GOV - Office of
>> Scientific and Technical Information
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.osti.gov%2fservlets%2fpurl%2f1169951&c=E,1,uLydPEGROoddnzr5miKC3sWwQeHYKocEueFbaQ2b4Jr0cNYWPYZz_F5SPKq42zoIyFeZ160raLZr1ggNnst3WsAHD2HdXtvLF0dM50MvSfotwqo,&typo=1>
>> Abstract. Conventional drilling methods are very mature, but still
>> have difficulty drilling through very deep,very hard and hot rocks
>> for geothermal, nuclear waste entombment and oil and gas
>> applications.This project demonstrated the capabilities of utilizing
>> only high energy beams to drill such rocks,commonly called ‘Direct
>> Energy Drilling’, which has been the dream of industry since the ...
>> www.osti.gov
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.osti.gov&c=E,1,Vs0igMWwDycX-LB6DUn9MsWHdw7nn37qeanM3zSHyR3uHvRvrYXnzlBxaiFV2cbelqw4ruG3bYHhWldQoMWzDpjaHo-CQgynxBmib8NrVUQ,&typo=1&ancr_add=1>
>>
>>
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quaise.energy%2f&c=E,1,nV9xmDhwgm0p1o-qHiWaeFOEfwER5UlN9Y3Wabfvpk2IYKnJeWWG4Swl2dE635rRGMsbOwdFXea-oSOaEZFyCkKhBfwMfLPEJwKC1lzH6sTK-8ew-SuMtCUY&typo=1>
>>
>> Quaise Energy
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quaise.energy%2f&c=E,1,ZVrUGECcu-cXZG9PtFVowPYbS9hJfivfe-YLbI3NgXgl4YjhSpSfJPuKChCYe_LAoH7dDbu4k3Yp4KVkYcVev6Iqp4n-TGRnxwppZF6QWjNdpiZ66e4,&typo=1>
>> Quaise is an energy company unlocking geothermal energy for the world
>> population through millimeter wave drilling technology.
>> www.quaise.energy
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quaise.energy&c=E,1,EoUr194LsLgnmfEzQwxcHXbNHWIBNSCKFysZ92shETogzxdNF3L33zcxJAKPhuRPxbUvUd45WRQLUjJDfRcpCYbOi7JIoqkYLTAzQbJGNQ,,&typo=1&ancr_add=1>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith
>> <sasmyth at swcp.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 11:38 AM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
>>
>> On 12/16/22 10:56 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
>>> I had never heard of a transatlantic power grid. That is an
>>> interesting idea. The sun is probably shining somewhere on the earth
>>> at any given time. Would a lot of energy get wasted with the long
>>> distances?
>>
>>
>> Nikola Tesla is rolling in his magnetically shielded grave hearing
>> all this wasteful and under-inspired talk of long-range power
>> transmission
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftheconversation.com%2fnikola-tesla-5g-network-could-realise-his-dream-of-wireless-electricity-a-century-after-experiments-failed-158665%23%3a~%3atext%3dHe%2520theorised%2520that%2520electricity%2520could%2celectricity%2520supply%2520were%2520never%2520realised.&c=E,1,Z78KbArJ6ZyU4lsCH5ZTaAazBlBWFSYCD5BB-tmHwnH6h0KlN-u-rHr15bAjmi0yHDrhOpM_uVTQk6N_VKmFjet3NUjoGL7pnF46-IaCnApO&typo=1>
>> via wires?
>>
>> my SF addled brain conjures a snow-piercer
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.tntdrama.com%2fsnowpiercer&c=E,1,3632M-ARYoh18WP4Ebg9xB7ZSdj5vN7EfteAgA48GjtVg9HnSQwm-8NYZq16dpKsqI3NXxIlv9VWQRQ5t-Lf__nO18TM9jkB_qZEUbaE&typo=1>
>> style earth-circumscribing rail-line... the pylons can be driven so
>> deep into the earth's crust that they are tapped into the earth's
>> inner heat, the rails can be the DC conduit Marcus suggests. There
>> can be as many windmills and tidal turbines placed along the line as
>> one feels they need/can-afford/stand-to-see as well as a PV/thermo
>> solar continuous collector/shade-roof which can also enhance gradient
>> by radiating into the (2.73-273 deg K
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f153839%2fwhat-is-the-temperature-of-the-clear-night-sky-from-the-surface-of-earth&c=E,1,Mym_MVP2YQQpG8ShnGwNgqA7mlDs-14HRuNLYPSrS_TLcWTQJS93tLKc4WuPtM4hKFR6eL-VrRsD-AeTXOFgpPm7pZnaTZp62gbUe8d3bxk3j7LI9ZTRZjXrHA,,&typo=1>)
>> sky at night. The Snowpiercer rail-cars can move (make them
>> pneumatic or evacuated-ballistic (~18mi/sec?)) physical goods and
>> materials continuously... (thank you Elon Musk). Mount a few
>> Spinlaunch
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.spinlaunch.com%2f&c=E,1,MOTshsb7TvaaZ3PnkdVodS1gcu9F7R_4CgYU2PKnxxnEl1alwhxwZZvlgvTDntZXW0c2_jWEyWazC5Q0iiFKcDMQ6dKv7VFywXQXnP6W-gqfLUIwrenxbQ,,&typo=1>
>> units on train units and squirt things into orbit at-will?
>>
>> Wait, maybe it can become a strip-city modeled on SA's "Line"
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Line,_Saudi_Arabia>... at 100
>> miles long and 9million population, the circumferential "line" would
>> be 240 times as long and have a carrying capacity of >2 Billion based
>> on their predicted precedent. Place three of these orthogonal to
>> one another like an armillary sphere
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillary_sphere> and we are up to
>> 6B? A modest bump in scale (cube root of 1.5) could accommodate
>> 9B! A few of us (DaveW, GaryS, ... myself) rebellious non-urban
>> renegades could live in the remaining landscape NOT covered by these
>> 3 circumscribing strip cities and live our lives in the spirit of
>> Sean Connery's character Zed in Zardoz
>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/>!
>>
>> Heck, just a nice precursor to Larry Niven's Ringworld
>> <https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11183/could-we-build-a-ringworld-17166651/>
>> tell Musk he can keep his claims to Mars... at least until the rest
>> of us need the mass to integrate into a proper Dyson Sphere
>> <https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11098/dyson-sphere/>...
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:46 AM Gillian Densmore
>>> <gil.densmore at gmail.com <mailto:gil.densmore at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> frank: ah! thanks. It seems like you've had 99 lives man.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels
>>> <marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I like the idea of a large transatlantic DC power cable.
>>> That would enable solar power to be distributed around the
>>> world. It would reduce the need to depend on batteries for
>>> wind and solar. Of course, you raise #3, so it would be a
>>> target for sabotage like with Nordstream. It would be nice
>>> to think there are things just to valuable to destroy, but
>>> probably there are no such things.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of Sarbajit
>>> Roy <sroy.mb at gmail.com <mailto:sroy.mb at gmail.com>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 12:01 AM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
>>> What you are missing includes
>>> 1) Disposal of long term hazardous nuclear waste.
>>> 2) Problems in maintaining / decommissioning ol older
>>> nuclear fission plants
>>> 3) Examples like we are seeing Ukraine's nuclear plants
>>> caught up in a war.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian Densmore
>>> <gil.densmore at gmail.com <mailto:gil.densmore at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok so this is cool and all.
>>> Sigh I'll ask /that/ question. We want less carbons
>>> because the planet is on f'n fire
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E> . As far
>>> as I know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate
>>> change. Ie we made this mess clean it up. ok fair so far
>>> I'm following.
>>> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why
>>> not also put as much money into matter/anti matter as
>>> well as fusion? We can make minute amounts of antimatter
>>> in massive collider. I'd think something who's by
>>> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot
>>> of energy created would be a massive honney pot the
>>> department of energy would pursue as well.
>>> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but
>>> it's a lot cleaner and safer than oil and coal I say)
>>> I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
>>> What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings
>>> with it being just arround the corner for decades. while
>>> matter/anti matter is (sort of) here. Fission is here.
>>> Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton of
>>> reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels
>>> <marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>>>
>>> https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ffirstlightfusion.com%2ftechnology%2fpower-plant&c=E,1,1NJ-XcDEmKi04uhzUB2lMLLrnNmeOamZbsh4x1nomKptnRcepuAG6nIzZa-Vkp6j7FXfy6H03NI33ZqC50Mmb520tTTW8fZrKMl6VNCK&typo=1>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen
>>>> <gepropella at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this
>>>> topic for another day. I've got a few more links
>>>> from other fora I'll plop here just in case I only
>>>> land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>>>>
>>>> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flasers.llnl.gov%2fnews%2fmagnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance&c=E,1,hBEOlKMckpiDlTJRo-WMQ56EfZB3lRXOEUuD1VMkpQJa7P3Uai717KSKg7Vj3lVpfZ5obboXZXkuKQjsh_7Q5MxlQr9IE-41gqZdtlw9JzZ5y8CqG4kq7gnyKg,,&typo=1>
>>>> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fspie.org%2fnews%2fnuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis%3fSSO%3d1&c=E,1,GpCwEyhXVZIFhCAPfuU3lWNSG77phcjxX5MROX9cuTbzcMJv84wE7troNfSjHa6PTjz6yJ13kVQltdk8tYUMQCp7SXNmzljHyri7FdraVJOlK_7siKJ86g,,&typo=1>
>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fcontent%2farticle%2ffusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started&c=E,1,jUBL7xpus60wLeNUs2773Lb4fAQckmofYkTHcMV4xRrIfZK7qgpaj1zbVa0DgSUnnKWOduJnGFagpMIdATeil7rK35MgkXSpBuXj-y8WZg,,&typo=1>
>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>>>> <https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>>>>> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction
>>>>> of Deuterium/Tritium remaining after the reaction
>>>>> event (-4%) without specific accounting for
>>>>> remaining D vs T.
>>>>> My understanding is that D-T fusion occurs at a
>>>>> lower temperature than D-D but that once fusion
>>>>> commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
>>>>> reactions occurring in similar amounts. In
>>>>> laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I believe the ratio
>>>>> of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to
>>>>> make sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most
>>>>> references I see imply equal portions. An equal
>>>>> number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to
>>>>> consume D more quickly, though as that commences,
>>>>> the D/T ratio would go down, making D-T reactions
>>>>> (yet) more likely... tricky business, no wonder it
>>>>> has taken decades to get to this point?
>>>>> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion>
>>>>> I found several popular science Articles which
>>>>> seem to reinforce my sense that this
>>>>> "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fcontent%2farticle%2ffusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really&c=E,1,bJK6eG7pRdZE7HXvxjakoGRlYzeO2sqOB6whhs0kHLnlO5a5-0R5olAtI6nD6th9x7swmyW9BIom9TGSnxOheZ5N4vnYYOlrKcdO5k22UtRVZMrzFSo29vBkjg,,&typo=1>
>>>>> Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and
>>>>> D-D fusion...
>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1>
>>>>> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.energy.gov%2fscience%2fdoe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions&c=E,1,OQeZ4eIqEldZ9Yy6dVdmHJ1n8_TELmX4RzLcEPE6xPLUJnh42qFE9PhkDL_Vp177-_HidTb8v_JAEgderc1dXmiU1QkJLoFpnnkS-ARLuL0L8No,&typo=1>
>>>>> <https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.energy.gov%2fscience%2fdoe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions&c=E,1,oWM_h3U7NPiyhduzLgZpLu64qYzqtG3kY4NJAgXnIS68g7rl7-S0Sx-6up-6BGFFxM9KP32QJ16Rmu5LD4CLj9DLj9Hq2Mx78CznsSn4ppGuJW-Qf3AFj-9c5Ko,&typo=1>>
>>>>> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fscience.jrank.org%2fpages%2f4732%2fNuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html&c=E,1,QPrI9T8WGsJ0E9c57KKQkRF5IRiaUIXl4jsyZRJzyYAtw0V30ym8NNFIIbXmXm9A65hpL8qtJ99t9e6Xf28Tj8dY_UBuKPUVVZHdwRK5pQ,,&typo=1>
>>>>> <https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fscience.jrank.org%2fpages%2f4732%2fNuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html&c=E,1,7zYeFzMI7Os8oelzDnXlCiySZ0j4sLLHbHDXW4jiXKr4ftoxYmyy0DUz7NScHrpkjArprm-QNMnb50FOSneRe8iXNJrb4szplQWjVfo62X9Yod0w&typo=1>>
>>>>> On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:
>>>>>> That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means
>>>>>> both deuterium and tritium, not just deuterium.
>>>>>> If you were going to track fuel use, you'd track
>>>>>> the rarer part more closely, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>>>>>> DT = deuterium?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen
>>>>>>> <gepropella at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up
>>>>>>> with the QC Wormhole kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta
>>>>>>> was so click baity?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is "DT"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>> > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to
>>>>>>> watch DOE administrators talk:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was
>>>>>>> important for maintaining symmetry. Timing
>>>>>>> precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial
>>>>>>> precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was
>>>>>>> thought to be the main explanation for the
>>>>>>> achievement.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in
>>>>>>> the capsules. Developing software to do the
>>>>>>> counting.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the
>>>>>>> fabrication systems and their components (done
>>>>>>> in Germany) to find idiosyncrasies of each.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF was
>>>>>>> built which are 20% more efficient.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7
>>>>>>> months each
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation
>>>>>>> hydrodynamics and experimental data. (It
>>>>>>> sounded preliminary.)
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects
>>>>>>> than previous experiments. However, previous
>>>>>>> experiments did show benefits from capsule quality.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of
>>>>>>> this kind, 15% of experiments are other
>>>>>>> approaches to ignition. The rest are weapons
>>>>>>> and materials characterization.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were
>>>>>>> problems in the summer runs. Fixed that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>>>>
>>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . /
>>>> -.-. --- -.. .
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>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Rs34rtCDa2uHm_4oumcRXPBxa1PBRla5dLPxQEzsasNfIsoNichGPwe3B-b0a1G5JZMS37yME9cT1ahL615BK9Hzs5zV50HJnC-9IWHElaKbvBsW32aSJjA8c5wq&typo=1>
>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . /
>>> -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays
>>> 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,4LSIIOCwZChhew4KxsyyejptjxPVjKueUa0gPtmSywR_LQ6QwjgXdNlHNWrHj213NVLgpg4BBc6XxJFiJfDjPBNA2qv14IG8hy7ULK94Yu-8&typo=1>
>>> to (un)subscribe
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,MbxrD7R-Ngwgb2T_VGWoAGez3SDSzGGH0Eph4yYqUAlcA0LwfWUFUnNOkbCY4dwqmAN4GW5t7iVCH-mOMLlw34lo0W3g8H_8upKFVqoW9g,,&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,yRRJAdMwJQQRxSOFoVrFyQNpJU5fwWEPqwCAG44uMamJ85JV8Mkb2nHefnpI60w7o8lZhqZM8LQ0IKuRT9vJbkBhYnlYt0oK7qXBqZm8JUAVbkW6Uzc6&typo=1>
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,dhNdM-vCsZtMgU3pRLsScCYvDdjo5ssgAJQaMzjKfkqLutfmKxijan0atXRm8JU_JSCFnA7DJnCUaa9RqxPmR09nVY6CSa4B9qW9_l3pkK8Ay1V-e-Sleg,,&typo=1>
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-.
>>> --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays
>>> 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,T1nx5t7L4jQ85bV_h2bg8RXWtfY5L0mHsx9uuW0rXmL4s8QIrpOWeygIQgIsCxjnyL6H5M-StVuFv6f3nIAyf6W390BKNuSoh1m0X67fusxRcxqR&typo=1>
>>> to (un)subscribe
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,3VRq7XHzLeSfLsDWxc-KC2joFKqwm5SnwGAFg-UNNf_D_NHJLeyKBUXWcregia7bbkj10fB98FGIsPXkFfcz9ttKd1fOTugLZhFR1y0-3Y-uZyWzBg,,&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,qo9eoxFefh5m5rk3Zgq_N-QabuHIAJ2XcZ3Wz2ytcY62F3g9RZwz04gde-1X9nedd9AxYfRXEL9xuKQ84b7PoenYYPKu-OS5zmnJX-hzIj2cHSOT&typo=1>
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,cQEVvQVtyWn-_JanDHCH5p7ou7kjtXOP0wYj-BxsrswaKPh5qMbezdhGhUGGKa0sVaXd4VJFkGNbdJ5_2NH2S2RW7VgMKknUjwkp-fEr&typo=1>
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. ---
>>> -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p
>>> Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,yDIuCtQG024RAXKGCf_itzxc2f0h3ksLrPisjfz3Y7-LMCL1vZ5UBufEeBl0mKiFi_gM5xOqOR6uvXQXfQGnSDnNU-u94FgtwhPiizOAW4qljR6w&typo=1>
>>> to (un)subscribe
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,cJuWIEY4kfI8z-nTJT_wsErRJhCQC255clUhPnyoFaScbZjbfMEpmNFg1Vm1Pj-rtI3mKe-8XGm-yCbKE7YLV1bzms3FJmS744NXArKbB9qdS48T&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,g7clAwBJG2DR8652muuXkMYnTWlH6NWbFRwRCVfcHUXGsOfX2sJ0rrZGnJNixEu4MWI_LccEjos5KZK7I3SUsJPUgkguNInZwtGNFnGGWdiICA,,&typo=1>
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,JqigFPisr1a5kfBQzBmYBhJpK-OWBchoSrXOREQrtTWHASiSau7AirjmkyxuWWzB3SDjvYvuGhVB0dx1AnNktPDzB24WFP2u3PSm0wFVeZIVhWEfPmhmWMnlcQ,,&typo=1>
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,gbYoCoeD9Dn2b39GcfwgXdTbK_tSjqkIQL_NcCmarxOxENzfcWZJHOX4QaEd0NszSk23TM2mT4OkRYJTQHo07dhlPPTMq1wwon7rkr2bdHGn0_oSwEQbxhxH&typo=1>
>>> to (un)subscribe
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,swy4ozqNQzjWHluBXFtqppp2dg8Se9q3yUwlHvtdM_LDQRYM8Vsvky22cCAs_lg72HKX2TbkrvMcyKVadmUqaqDMt1RWZwJ84RXExjBMOZN9fo4,&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,y5n_p-ncySZ_FHaS0h7URKXWLuVKrVmLqkI51qvXfR44-U6FiHy6FoH8G_2QSjQ4eK1rUkCwmLf4S_cNuqr0DkvzE3RcFOTRMEafP-cVY1htA4ddS9Qv&typo=1>
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,c-791VMLtygFix_TWin5BQjUF2ke8iqwJLylplf3o6sGoP0kG9-tkjmoKHGdgVvMKSad-evVLT77N0tSQe-0PBhYW3yerM1by56tZ2Ed81Ev9Xm7-a2ZP4j_&typo=1>
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,TbRaUzyrzrrftdpJunUSV011pnkfSJ1x3Ra1LvFxdnQ3ztVniF8j32A-N4nP4Wy7FByiFonpVBU-wPHOBMNKLjoadFCDR2-Wj73UHzj7MTqcNGgOtS354X4QqTkU&typo=1>
>>> to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,1TnJ1EUYXM6PQrXKiVdbV2jDj2J8jIRBht1_QwvxLwZbHcnA6rNJQ2ZKvB1hfLKrcrw188W4CyS7o6Bhl0g_bz-tOszgYdgIK0QBAfKH&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,s-cRhFnrrlrl6sFpDTOXiHkJ2AQ_RiH1Ac8h_1misLnIb8WDsNLDPK93iRFBy1XkfKqTyyTCQKz7fyobykFoi-qtbWBgmpklE20zw98-gtaDKm9tsQ,,&typo=1>
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,--IAIC2d-1Cj2H8Z-PWHhIw_M0T4NC7ZG-WzF1HgvYx0Bjv3yJlz7JW0DP6HWp2A54cN7-AMWjcX9DtbrxBlysy6KZrmHhOFEVIdNLcwwDTe8e0,&typo=1>
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,OKXiLCtjTvzs-b9Q2q_XG3zAkLy3m4ZtiFPKQy6CHXft9L5Fdj1f8wate_04KytNhdrXPUNpN2kplv9Cbr_mrHgNh-KIe3mi1LP0YMCI&typo=1
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,OKXiLCtjTvzs-b9Q2q_XG3zAkLy3m4ZtiFPKQy6CHXft9L5Fdj1f8wate_04KytNhdrXPUNpN2kplv9Cbr_mrHgNh-KIe3mi1LP0YMCI&typo=1>
>> to (un)subscribe
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,vQ3IKKsKAV7svBnZ1p8KaAFx2yh1duX8w2ZjHiPFTakOy9WhDNFVu4ULuiptlcDG1951d67sXkV8aezmIufRBtBhju-Vx5MLO0la3RFG4CC6Z0hk-e9Xsa9QAFs,&typo=1
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,vQ3IKKsKAV7svBnZ1p8KaAFx2yh1duX8w2ZjHiPFTakOy9WhDNFVu4ULuiptlcDG1951d67sXkV8aezmIufRBtBhju-Vx5MLO0la3RFG4CC6Z0hk-e9Xsa9QAFs,&typo=1>
>> FRIAM-COMIC
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,rM_gMIqDPhqJow_ZrrEDS8zCElFOSbh0D6LV-ajV_LUj5w5xX3Dvue41uC6MD4eRhJl_PMGvsmNYuvsMfevDjzi_Sn1VyulLla4smqfVk3dY5WWtHA,,&typo=1
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,rM_gMIqDPhqJow_ZrrEDS8zCElFOSbh0D6LV-ajV_LUj5w5xX3Dvue41uC6MD4eRhJl_PMGvsmNYuvsMfevDjzi_Sn1VyulLla4smqfVk3dY5WWtHA,,&typo=1>
>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,sfUMhVFJ96ZpubQfacltrDwguKfRkBc9ohpcoGfvDPK15jf0Chm2qIycFhMkeXjywvx13QQ0kUS0OmaoN0_5CYvzNWdpIfISf4agS_0Y4wj6HcgvQA,,&typo=1
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,sfUMhVFJ96ZpubQfacltrDwguKfRkBc9ohpcoGfvDPK15jf0Chm2qIycFhMkeXjywvx13QQ0kUS0OmaoN0_5CYvzNWdpIfISf4agS_0Y4wj6HcgvQA,,&typo=1>
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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