[FRIAM] Another Stunning Hydrogen Development - Retake Our Democracy

[Steve Smith]

On 2/6/22 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/

    ///Low-cost fossil fuel resources are finite. Someday it will simply
    not be possible to burn oil, natural gas, and coal for the
    affordable heat, electricity, and motive power humans need to power
    their prosperous societies./
    ////

Must we always begin with the assumption that growth in terms of 
geographical/geometric, material and energy consumption/appropriation 
are requisite to continuing/growing a "prosperous society"?   
Tangentially (or not), if "green" hydrogen implies a 2:1 ratio of CO2 
production to H2 but often begins with fossil fuels, it is obviously yet 
another "kick the can down the road" solution.   Harvesting solar and 
direct-solar/lunar-derived energy (including wind, tidal) and channeling 
it through our living (including technological infrastructure and 
agri-industry) systems to yield high-entropy "waste heat" seems to be 
orders of magnitude more sustainable (if still questionable on some very 
long time-scale limited by a Dyson-Sphere-like-limit).    If the H2 is 
created by cracking H20 (and capturing both to be recombined later to 
release energy) using solar (and other renewables) energy it is a 
*closed cycle*.  One would presume the total amount of H2 we would have 
stored/

 From ecology there comes the observed phenomena of "island syndrome" 
which can include island dwarfism and poikilothermy which are both 
driven by reducing the demand on finite resources without giving up 
function or complexity.

 From Alexander Payne comes the absurdist SciFi flick Downsizing 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)#Plot> which postulates 
by shrinking humans by ???-fold (5 inches tall ~= 12:1 in 1 dimension, 
144:1 in cross section and 1728:1 in volume/mass... )  the movie implies 
no change in metabolic rates which would nominally speed up with 
"shrinkage", yielding (also) shorter lifespans.   Oh well.. Fiction.   
But the point would seem well taken... Gaia would get a 2000:1 reprieve 
from our *current* energy/mass burden on her systems.

I'm not promoting shrinking people as-such, just noting that our 0th 
order instinct is growth, and supralinear if at all possible, up to and 
likely achieving Kurzweillian asymptotic resource consumption.

On that note, I believe that the myriad technological singularity 
concepts all point toward increased complexity  and downscaling to 
extend the use of material and energy, driving up the effective 
collective metabolism of "the system" and paradoxically *increasing* the 
rate at which we approach any of the jillion ecophagic gray-goo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo>-like scenarios neo-luddites 
like me might contrive.

I assume (but have not yet poked around for) that Alifers have already 
studied the multi-scale *structure* of negative entropy profiles in 
complex systems-of-systems.   I think Glen has his ear closer to that 
rail than some here?  EricS? ??? I'm still fascinated in the topic but 
gave up my little-toenail-purchase in the community in the early 2000s - 
Symbiotic Intelligence ALifeVI 
<https://cseweb.ucsd.edu//~rik/alife6/papers/SY51.html>.   This reads so 
naive yet (mildly) prophetic now...

All is lost! Flee the solar system!

    //

>
>
>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:20 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Grey hydrogen?
>>
>> https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/ 
>>
>>
>>
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