[FRIAM] AI etiquette, Marijuana research
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Wed Jul 20 19:28:38 EDT 2022
Smiths, et alii ...
I find this thread-bit a nice complement to the point Marcus made many
weeks ago... confronting my assumption that
consciousness/intelligence/creativity (can't remember precisely which
subject was in play at the moment) was "anything more than imitation". /
/
/ "All Art is Derivative"/?
I think there is something afoot here which I can only (because I lack
imagination, and even when I notice I'm being derivative, I cannot help
but continue?) characterize (gesturally) what I think Terrence Deacon is
going on about with his neologisms: "Ententional" and "Absential" and by
extension "Teleodynamic"
<https://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/scientists/deacon/>.
I could blather on for paragraphs with my weak grasp of what he is going
on about, but instead will leave it... "¿absent?". I believe this is
in your (Eric's) Wheelhouse, rhyming with Morowitz's "Pruning".
As I am wont to do, I happen to be reading simultaneously with Deacon, a
work of fiction by Ruth Ozeki, "The Book of Form and Emptiness" where
one of her characters (a wheelchair bound homeless poet) instructs her
protagonist with:
/"Poetry is a problem of form and emptiness, Ze moment i put one
word onto an empty page, I have created a problem for myself. Ze
poem that emerges is form trying to find a solution to my problem."/
It is a ¿coincidence? that these two books crawling through me right now
are on the same subject in some sense? All of this has bubble-sorted
"The Origin and Nature of Life
<https://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/physics/biological-physics-and-soft-matter-physics/origin-and-nature-life-earth-emergence-fourth-geosphere?format=HB>"
to the top of my stack, about 5 years overdue. I must read faster, or
more in parallel or allow my dopple-selves across the quantum-multiverse
to merge more-better?
//
Regarding your (Cody's) original assertion, I do believe that there is a
reach/grasp relationship. True creativity (as if such a thing can be
declared) might seem to be in the reach more than the grasp. AI still
seems to be *grasping* what humans (the only sentience we are familiar
with) has deigned/considered/imagined to *reach for*?
I will respond to Eric's astute point about imagination/creativity in
(science) fiction under separate cover.
- yet another Smith
On 7/20/22 3:18 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
> I feel like this is yet another reminder that humans, by and large,
> lack imagination.
>
> The reason robots in sci-fi are flat and empty is because sci-fi is
> re-telling Descartes’s assertion that everything except humans
> (probably, sotto voce, except him) are flat and affectless. Maybe
> even more than machines are that, we imprint that on the paradigm of
> machine. It’s just the age-old thing of people needing to feel
> singular and important, and using vehicles like religion to
> systematize their neediness. That sci-fi prides itself on being
> imaginative, while re-telling the same small portfolio of bible
> stories and other similar sources is human Dunning-Krugerness on display.
>
> A world free of all that corruption probably has lots of dimensions of
> possibility that humans will just drive by without noticing because
> their minds are elsewhere.
>
> Of course, each of your detailed points I recognize is true and a good
> one,
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:05 AM, cody dooderson <d00d3rs0n at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It is surprising that AI is so creative. Many science fiction robots
>> were calculated but uncreative. They are like Data from star trek,
>> basically a calculator with very little creative potential. But it
>> seems like AI, as it develops, is actually more creative than its
>> human counterparts.
>> Here are a few examples that come to mind. AlphaGo beat the
>> grandmaster, Lee Sedol, with moves that the grandmaster had never
>> seen before. The art world is seeing some very cool stuff coming out
>> of trained neural networks like Dall-e2*. In the Sony article, they
>> talk about a trick where the AI put a wheel on the grass to initiate
>> a controlled slide. Do you think that modern Neural networks will
>> give any insight into the nature of creativity?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Dall-e2 https://www.reddit.com/r/weirddalle/
>>
>> Cody Smith
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 7:19 AM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:
>>
>> Two articles from MIT Tech Review.
>>
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/19/1056176/sonys-racing-ai-destroyed-its-human-competitors-by-being-nice-and-fast/
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.technologyreview.com%2f2022%2f07%2f19%2f1056176%2fsonys-racing-ai-destroyed-its-human-competitors-by-being-nice-and-fast%2f&c=E,1,sW_uqrRPOXBSOBOKyAZBXmUeEC_gAg6bC8gm1INQST-ojGhCL2hs6hZ0n3OXOMaE29ZvHzCImJ-clJq2975O6Z7VJXWF-auEZX7UaV_rfFo7jCerKI3uQrTt&typo=1>
>>
>> Training AI drivers for Gran Turismo racing, it turns out that
>> they can learn to physically drive faster than people, but
>> they're too aggressive to win head to head races because they
>> drive the competition off the road. So you need to train them to
>> observe the norms of the competition, by including penalties for
>> crashes, bumps, cut-offs, etc, into the training. They still
>> drive faster than people, and the way they drive is a bit
>> disturbing to watch.
>>
>> [So if you were training AI drivers for political races, would
>> the norms come from established law or where the voters could be
>> persuaded to mark their polls?]
>>
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/20/1056219/weed-influencer-and-scientist-feud-over-cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome/
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.technologyreview.com%2f2022%2f07%2f20%2f1056219%2fweed-influencer-and-scientist-feud-over-cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome%2f&c=E,1,V2LEaPWTwH3T7VFjGfU7bcnhh0onNBmvFckXpaLoRhfL1fS-X5j4_shbXCArwd2na4pUY52IMOtyZK5VLSHLt7YD7qfxOsYsys64-ZDOhZIodihFmXY1Zg,,&typo=1>
>>
>> The scientist and the instagram influencer attempt to study the
>> genetic causes of CHS (cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome) and the
>> influencer blows up the study when she declares that the
>> scientist is a shill on her channel. Ah the joys of decision
>> making with uncertainty and cognitive bias.
>>
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