[FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

[Marcus Daniels]

Mirror recognition (or usage) took a while for my dog to learn.  She seems perplexed by the fact humans and dogs look different.   While I don’t know she is looking at herself, she seems to understand the difference between me in a mirror and me right in front of her.   She no longer thinks it is another dog.

 

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 1:17 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:54 AM Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Here is an example  If you play a dog's bark back to him, does he respond as if it's the bark of an intruder? 

If not, that suggest some sort of self recognition mechanism,  given that the bark I give sounds a heluva lot different  from the bark I would hear if if I were the hearer of my own bark.

 

Nick 


Dog recognizing its own bark may be close to the  self-recognition in mirror test which dogs and cats fail (and some humans). Dogs do recognize their own odor in many tests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

+-----------------+---------------------------+
| Species         | Mirror Self-Recognition    |
+-----------------+---------------------------+
| Infants         | Yes (18-24 months)         |
| Monkeys         | No                         |
| Chimps          | Yes (2-3 years)            |
| Dolphins        | Yes (2-3 years)            |
| Democrats       | Yes (18-24 months)         |
| Elephants       | Yes (2-3 years)            |
| Magpies         | Yes                        |
| Republicans     | Mixed                      |
| Gorillas        | Mixed                      |
| Orangutans      | Yes                        |
| Pigeons         | Mixed                      |
| Octopi          | No                         |
| Dogs            | No                         |
| Cats            | No                         |
+-----------------+---------------------------+

 

Amsterdam, B. (1972). Mirror self-image reactions before age two. Developmental Psychobiology, 5(4), 297–305. https://doi.org/10.1002/dev.420050403. https://redfish.com/papers/Amsterdam-1972-Mirrorself-imagereactionsbeforeagetwo.pdf
EGallup, G. G. (1970). "Chimpanzees: Self-recognition." Science, 167(3914), 86-87. https://sci-hub.se/10.1126/science.167.3914.8 <https://sci-hub.se/10.1126/science.167.3914.86> 

Reiss, D., & Marino, L. (2001). "Mirror self-recognition in the bottlenose dolphin: A case of cognitive convergence." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 98(10), 5937-5942. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.101086398 <https://www.pnas.org/content/98/10/593> 

Plotnik, J. M., de Waal, F. B., & Reiss, D. (2006). "Self-recognition in an Asian elephant." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 103(45), 17053-17057. https://www.pnas.org/content/103/45/17053

 

FWIW,  I don't consider self-awareness necessary for consciousness - though it is an interesting topic to me like theory-of-mind. 

 

-Stephen

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