[FRIAM] nice quote
Nicholas Thompson
thompnickson2 at gmail.com
Sun Oct 6 00:03:07 EDT 2024
sorry.
....discredited 30 years earlier (in the 50's)
On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM steve smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
> Marcus - I tried to sort your point... I appreciated the (simplistic but
> potent?) NYT American Myths bit, but not clear if we are talking about the
> same Kazcynski? While he did (obviously) take the position colinear with
> "might makes right" ("right justifies might?") I don't think he was ever a
> proponent of taking from the planet or any *other* excepting the lives (and
> will to continue) of those who would through willful ignorance or ignorant
> willfulness do thus themselves?
>
> A few years ago Mary's movie buff son in Austin took us to see Errol
> Flynn's "American Dharma" which reflects her son's affection for Errol
> Flynn's work as much as his disgust with Bannon. It's title, drawn from
> Bannon's own use of the term dharma as "one's moral duty or destiny". That
> *does* seem to be what these three creatures (characters, caricatures?)
> might have in common? Their individual ideosyncratic views of what their
> "righteous paths" might be? I'm no fan of any of the three, but they
> *do* seem to be pretty authentic to their inner twisted sense of "self" and
> "destiny"?
>
>
> On 10/5/24 12:32 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> The myths of America seems to be at the root of so much of this. The idea
> that we can take from the planet (or the solar system) from the “other”,
> and each other with no consequence somehow gets rationalized by the likes
> of Kaczynski, Musk, or Bannon as the essential property of freedom.
> Exploitation and the exercise of power is all there is, in this view.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/05/opinion/trump-harris-american-myths.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P04.XPoB.77hNAmC3lb8K&smid=url-share
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On
> Behalf Of *steve smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 5, 2024 9:53 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] nice quote
>
>
>
>
>
> A belief later espoused by the Unabomber.
>
> My "Gaia Shrugs more Bigly" may well be me channeling ole Kaczynski
> hisself. I think Wilson's quote was in his 2000ish "Conscilience"? I
> don't know if K made a similar observation? I did read his manifesto back
> in the day but it is long integrated into my (weakly) associative memory
> (tinyLLM?).
>
> <For whomever might care or remember>
>
> At LAN(S)L the mailroom/system ramped up their worries that the Unabomber
> might (obviously?) target one of us... I think it was triggered by the
> first death (1985) he caused? This lasted about a year, and then the Cold
> war had thawed, the Iron Curtain fallen, and USSR disbanded (sortof) and
> all their Nukes were called home.
>
> It did lead to a lot of discussion (both in 85 and 95) about the various
> orders or hierarchies of presumed moral responsibility/implications around
> the work we did (ranging from presumably fundamentally ?purely?
> humanitarian through variations on mundane to the variations on acutely
> inhumane (EWPs, EMPs, Davy Crockett, etc).
>
> This was not a new conversation (e.g. Oppenheimer, et al vs Teller et al,
> etc) and it spread from "might we ignite the atmosphere?" to "gray goo" and
> bioterror speculations. I was proud that (at least) a few Weapon's
> Designers/Cold Warriors starting with Oppy, continuing with Agnew and
> Hecker unto Pedecini. I'm far from current (well over a decade... dunno
> if anyone is chatting this up inside LANL anymore?)
>
> Re: Kaczynski: I often forget how close we live to Florence ADX Supermax
> until I drive that route to/from Denver which reminds me of the myriad
> ?terrorists/criminals/psychopaths? (homegrown and imported) we've
> experienced in my adulthood.
>
> *ADX Florence* (also known as the *United States Penitentiary,
> Administrative Maximum Facility* or "Supermax") in *Florence, Colorado*,
> is a high-security federal prison that houses some of the most notorious
> and dangerous criminals in the U.S. The facility is known for its extreme
> security measures and solitary confinement practices.
>
> Here are some of the more notable inmates who are housed at ADX Florence
> who have variously used mail, shoes, underwear, rental trucks, and
> airliners to bomb their targets somewhat unconcerned about collateral:
>
> *1. Ted Kaczynski (The Unabomber)*:
>
> - *Crime*: A former mathematician and domestic terrorist responsible
> for a nationwide bombing campaign between 1978 and 1995, which killed three
> people and injured 23.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 1998).
>
> *2. Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán*:
>
> - *Crime*: The infamous Mexican drug lord and former leader of the *Sinaloa
> Cartel*, one of the most powerful drug trafficking organizations in
> the world.
> - *Notoriety*: Known for his daring prison escapes in Mexico and his
> role in drug-related violence. He was extradited to the U.S. in 2017,
> convicted in 2019, and sentenced to life in prison.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment plus 30 years (since 2019).
>
> *3. Ramzi Yousef*:
>
> - *Crime*: The mastermind behind the *1993 World Trade Center bombing*,
> which killed six people and injured over 1,000.
> - *Other Notable Acts*: He was also involved in the *Bojinka Plot*, a
> plan to bomb multiple airliners.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment plus 240 years (since 1998).
>
> *4. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev*:
>
> - *Crime*: One of the perpetrators of the *2013 Boston Marathon
> bombing*, which killed three people and injured over 260 others.
> - *Status*: Initially sentenced to death in 2015, though there have
> been legal challenges and appeals regarding the sentence.
> - *Sentence*: Currently sentenced to death, pending appeals.
>
> *5. Richard Reid (The "Shoe Bomber")*:
>
> - *Crime*: Reid attempted to detonate explosives hidden in his shoes
> during a *2001 American Airlines flight* from Paris to Miami.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without the possibility of parole
> (since 2003).
>
> *6. Zacarias Moussaoui*:
>
> - *Crime*: Convicted for his role in the *9/11 attacks*, though he was
> not one of the hijackers. He was found guilty of conspiring with al-Qaeda
> to commit terrorism.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 2006).
>
> *7. Robert Hanssen*:
>
> - *Crime*: A former FBI agent convicted of *spying for the Soviet
> Union and Russia* for more than two decades. His actions are
> considered one of the worst intelligence breaches in U.S. history.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 2002).
>
> *8. Terry Nichols*:
>
> - *Crime*: An accomplice in the *1995 Oklahoma City bombing*, which
> killed 168 people and injured hundreds. The attack was the deadliest act of
> domestic terrorism in U.S. history at the time.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 1997).
>
> *9. Eric Rudolph*:
>
> - *Crime*: The perpetrator of the *1996 Centennial Olympic Park
> bombing* in Atlanta, which killed two people and injured more than
> 100. Rudolph was also responsible for bombing abortion clinics and a gay
> nightclub.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 2005).
>
> *10. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (The "Underwear Bomber")*:
>
> - *Crime*: Abdulmutallab attempted to detonate an explosive device
> hidden in his underwear during a *2009 flight to Detroit*.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 2012).
>
> *11. Mutulu Shakur*:
>
> - *Crime*: A former member of the *Black Liberation Army* and
> stepfather of rapper *Tupac Shakur*, he was convicted for his role in
> a series of armed robberies in the 1980s, including the *Brinks
> armored truck robbery*, which left two police officers and a guard
> dead.
> - *Sentence*: 60 years, released on parole in 2022.
>
> *12. Michael Swango*:
>
> - *Crime*: A former doctor and serial killer who was convicted of
> poisoning patients and colleagues.
> - *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since 2000).
>
> And let's not forget Woody Harrelson's Father, the gangland hitman
> extra-ordinaire ?
>
> I believe we have our own (near) Weatherman in house?
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On
> Behalf Of *steve smith
> *Sent:* Friday, October 4, 2024 11:53 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] nice quote
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *"The real problem of humanity is the following: we have Paleolithic
> emotions, medieval institutions, and godlike technology. And it is
> terrifically dangerous."* Edward O. Wilson.
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
> This is a favorite quote for me of late... the challenge, methinks is
> "what am I going to do about it?"
>
> I try to resolve these questions for myself before I get too carried away
> trying to prescribe anything for anyone else (especially large scale/global
> solutions), yet it is useful to keep this in mind whilst considering what I
> think is 'best for the collective'.
>
> Maturing and Aging have offered me some perspective and relief from the
> emotional component (especially the fight/flight reproduce-at-all cost
> hormone driven ones). Similarly I've now seen (and studied) a variety of
> socio-economic-political systems enough to have at least vaguely informed
> opinions about them (unlike the totally mis-informed ones I had leading me
> to vote Reagan in over Carter as my first vote). The technological
> question is more near and dear to my heart having been simultaneously (or
> alternately?) a technophile and a luddite.
>
> I have dabbled in 19th century (and earlier) technology to help ground my
> grounding in the mid-late 20th century I grew up as part of the
> background. I've been lucky enough to engage some with 21st century tech
> early by virtue of working at an over-funded scientific laboratory which
> often either had access to or was developing for it's own ideosyncratic
> reasons, things which the public wouldn't see or maybe even hear about for
> decades. It was heady. But also disturbing.
>
> Yuval Harari's latest book *Nexus*, touches on the implications of our
> "information technology" development over millenia but especially the last
> few decades with a very *liberal* view of what means information technology
> (and networks in particular). Continuing his other cautionary tales about
> the power of our "storytelling", I feel like he lays the groundwork for the
> most likely way we might recalibrate emotions to institutions to
> technology. Our technology has been pulling hard against the drag of our
> institutions which are faithfully trying to drag our emotions (e.g.
> religious/political/cultural moral frameworks) and the impedance mismatch
> seems to be the source of most of our worst behaviours/outcomes?
>
> The stories our modern MAGA/FauxRepublican/FauxConservative political
> party in the US is telling is rooted deeply in the emotional with only the
> barest nod to the institutional (support LawNorder!!!!) and a jealous
> greedy eye for the godlike tech (e.g. Trump cozying up to Musk/TechBros and
> NFTs and Crypto as if he understands ANY of it?).
>
> The Progressive/Liberal "institutions" of the DNC seem to be a little less
> regressive/reactionary but do in fact suffer some of the same problems
> albeit not as acutely superficially obvious. Without bashing the
> specifics of what "the Dems" might be getting wrong, if we don't notice the
> impedance mismach EO Wilson called out for us there, we are destined to
> have raucous "ringing" in our systems? I think the promise of a "Green
> New Deal" juxtaposed with some of the biggest obvious fallacies and
> inadequacies are a good example... by the time we actually settle on what
> a GND might really look like the challenges and opportunities may have
> moved on by a decade or more (is GND a whole decade old as a term yet?)
> while MAGA keeps trying to claim "we believe in clean air and water but sea
> level rise will be fractions of an inch in centuries at worst and will
> yield more beachfront property in any case"?
>
> How do we move our collective storytelling to be both coherent and aligned
> with the physics/chemistry/bio/ecology of Gaia quickly enough to quit
> driving the various components past their limits (drill baby drill!)?
>
> Maybe we cannot. Maybe we will have to crash and burn and hope something
> can rise from the ashes (cockroaches and the Rolling Stones?
> NeoLibertarian TechBros in their high-tech Bitcoin Bunkers raising their
> own clones?)
>
> Atlas Shrugs, Gaia Shrugs more Bigly.... (Rand, Margulis, Dilbert, Trump
> references convolved?)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
Clark University
nthompson at clarku.edu
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson
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