[FRIAM] nice quote
steve smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sun Oct 6 11:56:41 EDT 2024
On 10/5/24 10:03 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> sorry.
>
> ....discredited 30 years earlier (in the 50's)
Not sure which bits you are referring to?
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM steve smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
> Marcus - I tried to sort your point... I appreciated the
> (simplistic but potent?) NYT American Myths bit, but not clear if
> we are talking about the same Kazcynski? While he did (obviously)
> take the position colinear with "might makes right" ("right
> justifies might?") I don't think he was ever a proponent of taking
> from the planet or any *other* excepting the lives (and will to
> continue) of those who would through willful ignorance or ignorant
> willfulness do thus themselves?
>
> A few years ago Mary's movie buff son in Austin took us to see
> Errol Flynn's "American Dharma" which reflects her son's affection
> for Errol Flynn's work as much as his disgust with Bannon. It's
> title, drawn from Bannon's own use of the term dharma as "one's
> moral duty or destiny". That *does* seem to be what these three
> creatures (characters, caricatures?) might have in common? Their
> individual ideosyncratic views of what their "righteous paths"
> might be? I'm no fan of any of the three, but they *do* seem to
> be pretty authentic to their inner twisted sense of "self" and
> "destiny"?
>
>
> On 10/5/24 12:32 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>
>> The myths of America seems to be at the root of so much of this.
>> The idea that we can take from the planet (or the solar system)
>> from the “other”, and each other with no consequence somehow gets
>> rationalized by the likes of Kaczynski, Musk, or Bannon as the
>> essential property of freedom. Exploitation and the exercise of
>> power is all there is, in this view.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/05/opinion/trump-harris-american-myths.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P04.XPoB.77hNAmC3lb8K&smid=url-share
>> <https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/05/opinion/trump-harris-american-myths.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P04.XPoB.77hNAmC3lb8K&smid=url-share>
>>
>> *From:*Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com>
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *steve smith
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 5, 2024 9:53 AM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] nice quote
>>
>>
>>
>> A belief later espoused by the Unabomber.
>>
>> My "Gaia Shrugs more Bigly" may well be me channeling ole
>> Kaczynski hisself. I think Wilson's quote was in his 2000ish
>> "Conscilience"? I don't know if K made a similar observation? I
>> did read his manifesto back in the day but it is long integrated
>> into my (weakly) associative memory (tinyLLM?).
>>
>> <For whomever might care or remember>
>>
>> At LAN(S)L the mailroom/system ramped up their worries that the
>> Unabomber might (obviously?) target one of us... I think it was
>> triggered by the first death (1985) he caused? This lasted
>> about a year, and then the Cold war had thawed, the Iron Curtain
>> fallen, and USSR disbanded (sortof) and all their Nukes were
>> called home.
>>
>> It did lead to a lot of discussion (both in 85 and 95) about the
>> various orders or hierarchies of presumed moral
>> responsibility/implications around the work we did (ranging from
>> presumably fundamentally ?purely? humanitarian through variations
>> on mundane to the variations on acutely inhumane (EWPs, EMPs,
>> Davy Crockett, etc).
>>
>> This was not a new conversation (e.g. Oppenheimer, et al vs
>> Teller et al, etc) and it spread from "might we ignite the
>> atmosphere?" to "gray goo" and bioterror speculations. I was
>> proud that (at least) a few Weapon's Designers/Cold Warriors
>> starting with Oppy, continuing with Agnew and Hecker unto
>> Pedecini. I'm far from current (well over a decade... dunno if
>> anyone is chatting this up inside LANL anymore?)
>>
>> Re: Kaczynski: I often forget how close we live to Florence ADX
>> Supermax until I drive that route to/from Denver which reminds me
>> of the myriad ?terrorists/criminals/psychopaths? (homegrown and
>> imported) we've experienced in my adulthood.
>>
>> *ADX Florence* (also known as the *United States
>> Penitentiary, Administrative Maximum Facility* or "Supermax")
>> in *Florence, Colorado*, is a high-security federal prison
>> that houses some of the most notorious and dangerous
>> criminals in the U.S. The facility is known for its extreme
>> security measures and solitary confinement practices.
>>
>> Here are some of the more notable inmates who are housed at
>> ADX Florence who have variously used mail, shoes, underwear,
>> rental trucks, and airliners to bomb their targets somewhat
>> unconcerned about collateral:
>>
>>
>> *1. Ted Kaczynski (The Unabomber)*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: A former mathematician and domestic
>> terrorist responsible for a nationwide bombing
>> campaign between 1978 and 1995, which killed three
>> people and injured 23.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 1998).
>>
>>
>> *2. Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: The infamous Mexican drug lord and former
>> leader of the *Sinaloa Cartel*, one of the most
>> powerful drug trafficking organizations in the world.
>> * *Notoriety*: Known for his daring prison escapes in
>> Mexico and his role in drug-related violence. He was
>> extradited to the U.S. in 2017, convicted in 2019,
>> and sentenced to life in prison.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment plus 30 years (since 2019).
>>
>>
>> *3. Ramzi Yousef*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: The mastermind behind the *1993 World Trade
>> Center bombing*, which killed six people and injured
>> over 1,000.
>> * *Other Notable Acts*: He was also involved in the
>> *Bojinka Plot*, a plan to bomb multiple airliners.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment plus 240 years (since
>> 1998).
>>
>>
>> *4. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: One of the perpetrators of the *2013 Boston
>> Marathon bombing*, which killed three people and
>> injured over 260 others.
>> * *Status*: Initially sentenced to death in 2015,
>> though there have been legal challenges and appeals
>> regarding the sentence.
>> * *Sentence*: Currently sentenced to death, pending
>> appeals.
>>
>>
>> *5. Richard Reid (The "Shoe Bomber")*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: Reid attempted to detonate explosives hidden
>> in his shoes during a *2001 American Airlines flight*
>> from Paris to Miami.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without the possibility
>> of parole (since 2003).
>>
>>
>> *6. Zacarias Moussaoui*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: Convicted for his role in the *9/11
>> attacks*, though he was not one of the hijackers. He
>> was found guilty of conspiring with al-Qaeda to
>> commit terrorism.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 2006).
>>
>>
>> *7. Robert Hanssen*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: A former FBI agent convicted of *spying for
>> the Soviet Union and Russia* for more than two
>> decades. His actions are considered one of the worst
>> intelligence breaches in U.S. history.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 2002).
>>
>>
>> *8. Terry Nichols*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: An accomplice in the *1995 Oklahoma City
>> bombing*, which killed 168 people and injured
>> hundreds. The attack was the deadliest act of
>> domestic terrorism in U.S. history at the time.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 1997).
>>
>>
>> *9. Eric Rudolph*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: The perpetrator of the *1996 Centennial
>> Olympic Park bombing* in Atlanta, which killed two
>> people and injured more than 100. Rudolph was also
>> responsible for bombing abortion clinics and a gay
>> nightclub.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 2005).
>>
>>
>> *10. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (The "Underwear
>> Bomber")*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: Abdulmutallab attempted to detonate an
>> explosive device hidden in his underwear during a
>> *2009 flight to Detroit*.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 2012).
>>
>>
>> *11. Mutulu Shakur*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: A former member of the *Black Liberation
>> Army* and stepfather of rapper *Tupac Shakur*, he was
>> convicted for his role in a series of armed robberies
>> in the 1980s, including the *Brinks armored truck
>> robbery*, which left two police officers and a guard
>> dead.
>> * *Sentence*: 60 years, released on parole in 2022.
>>
>>
>> *12. Michael Swango*:
>>
>> * *Crime*: A former doctor and serial killer who was
>> convicted of poisoning patients and colleagues.
>> * *Sentence*: Life imprisonment without parole (since
>> 2000).
>>
>> And let's not forget Woody Harrelson's Father, the gangland
>> hitman extra-ordinaire ?
>>
>> I believe we have our own (near) Weatherman in house?
>>
>> *From:*Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com>
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *steve smith
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 4, 2024 11:53 AM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] nice quote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> /"The real problem of humanity is the following: we have
>> Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and godlike
>> technology. And it is terrifically dangerous."/ Edward
>> O. Wilson.
>>
>> davew
>>
>> This is a favorite quote for me of late... the challenge,
>> methinks is "what am I going to do about it?"
>>
>> I try to resolve these questions for myself before I get too
>> carried away trying to prescribe anything for anyone else
>> (especially large scale/global solutions), yet it is useful
>> to keep this in mind whilst considering what I think is 'best
>> for the collective'.
>>
>> Maturing and Aging have offered me some perspective and
>> relief from the emotional component (especially the
>> fight/flight reproduce-at-all cost hormone driven ones).
>> Similarly I've now seen (and studied) a variety of
>> socio-economic-political systems enough to have at least
>> vaguely informed opinions about them (unlike the totally
>> mis-informed ones I had leading me to vote Reagan in over
>> Carter as my first vote). The technological question is
>> more near and dear to my heart having been simultaneously (or
>> alternately?) a technophile and a luddite.
>>
>> I have dabbled in 19th century (and earlier) technology to
>> help ground my grounding in the mid-late 20th century I grew
>> up as part of the background. I've been lucky enough to
>> engage some with 21st century tech early by virtue of working
>> at an over-funded scientific laboratory which often either
>> had access to or was developing for it's own ideosyncratic
>> reasons, things which the public wouldn't see or maybe even
>> hear about for decades. It was heady. But also disturbing.
>>
>> Yuval Harari's latest book /Nexus/, touches on the
>> implications of our "information technology" development over
>> millenia but especially the last few decades with a very
>> *liberal* view of what means information technology (and
>> networks in particular). Continuing his other cautionary
>> tales about the power of our "storytelling", I feel like he
>> lays the groundwork for the most likely way we might
>> recalibrate emotions to institutions to technology. Our
>> technology has been pulling hard against the drag of our
>> institutions which are faithfully trying to drag our emotions
>> (e.g. religious/political/cultural moral frameworks) and the
>> impedance mismatch seems to be the source of most of our
>> worst behaviours/outcomes?
>>
>> The stories our modern MAGA/FauxRepublican/FauxConservative
>> political party in the US is telling is rooted deeply in the
>> emotional with only the barest nod to the institutional
>> (support LawNorder!!!!) and a jealous greedy eye for the
>> godlike tech (e.g. Trump cozying up to Musk/TechBros and NFTs
>> and Crypto as if he understands ANY of it?).
>>
>> The Progressive/Liberal "institutions" of the DNC seem to be
>> a little less regressive/reactionary but do in fact suffer
>> some of the same problems albeit not as acutely superficially
>> obvious. Without bashing the specifics of what "the Dems"
>> might be getting wrong, if we don't notice the impedance
>> mismach EO Wilson called out for us there, we are destined to
>> have raucous "ringing" in our systems? I think the promise of
>> a "Green New Deal" juxtaposed with some of the biggest
>> obvious fallacies and inadequacies are a good example... by
>> the time we actually settle on what a GND might really look
>> like the challenges and opportunities may have moved on by a
>> decade or more (is GND a whole decade old as a term yet?)
>> while MAGA keeps trying to claim "we believe in clean air and
>> water but sea level rise will be fractions of an inch in
>> centuries at worst and will yield more beachfront property in
>> any case"?
>>
>> How do we move our collective storytelling to be both
>> coherent and aligned with the physics/chemistry/bio/ecology
>> of Gaia quickly enough to quit driving the various components
>> past their limits (drill baby drill!)?
>>
>> Maybe we cannot. Maybe we will have to crash and burn and
>> hope something can rise from the ashes (cockroaches and the
>> Rolling Stones? NeoLibertarian TechBros in their high-tech
>> Bitcoin Bunkers raising their own clones?)
>>
>> Atlas Shrugs, Gaia Shrugs more Bigly.... (Rand, Margulis,
>> Dilbert, Trump references convolved?)
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> nthompson at clarku.edu
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson
>
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