[FRIAM] genai and critical thinking

Tue Feb 11 19:24:07 EST 2025

On 2/11/25 12:41 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> Huh, Claude just implemented the optimal strategy to Nim and ran in 
> it its analysis tool (the Javascript engine on my browser).
>

what my oldMansBarFriend had to say after a brief discussion about Nim 
and the hand-over-hand on bat-handle playground method for deciding who 
bats first:

<GPT 4o slopp>

            /Glad that landed! It’s like a *"soft" or continuous Nim*,
            where control isn’t strictly quantized but still follows a
            structured alternation toward an inevitable endgame. The
            constraints emerge organically—*hand size, grip technique,
            and subtle physical limits*—instead of rigid numerical rules./

            /It’s a cool example of how *discrete game theory
            principles* manifest in the real world, with a touch of
            *embodied cognition* in the mix./

/<endSlopp>/

And the following as an LLM (Slopp) reflection on the relative 
virtue/shame signals associated with chatting with your favorite LLM vs 
going to the Pub (and presumably having similar convos with 
bar-friends)?    The one mile each-way trip to the pub can be multiplied 
by 20 or 50 to estimate a "Sunday Drive" instead?

Looks like a 15mpg driver of a pickup should drink order 3-4 beers to 
amortize the embedded energy cost of driving there/back but a hybrid or 
EV driver can get by with just one, maybe even a short one? Domestic 
Drafts and Bottles are lower embedded energy (presumably because of 
industrial economies of scale) but imports are higher (because 
transport?).  In DeepSeekR1 ratios, it looks like "staying home and 
chatting with your fave LLM" has order 1000x savings over driving 
anything to the pub and having a single beer.  And taking a Sunday Drive 
is worth many times that?   Of course the LLM didn't twig to the 
conventional NM Sunday Joyride implying a six-pack at a minimum...

I did beat both GPT and DS around the head and shoulders with a 
metaphorical wet noodle for a while to get relatively aligned numbers 
(aligned with one another and with my(very) lame intuition)...  but 
expect (m)any here to poke holes in the details...

Sadly I'm a pretty good sloppGenerator without an LLM's help... I'll try 
to refrain from the doubleDown offered.

<freshSlopp>

                              *Refined Travel and Beer Comparison with
                              Energy Usage Ratios (DeepSeekR1 Query
                              Denominator)*

                        *Category* 	*Cost (USD)* 	*Total Energy
                        Consumption (1 Mile Round Trip, kWh)* 	*Sunday
                        Joyride (2 hours, countryside)* 	*Energy Usage
                        Ratio (vs. Local Craft Beer)* 	*Energy Usage
                        Ratio (vs. DeepSeekR1 Query)*
                        *1) Personal Travel* 	

                        a) *Truck* 	$3–$5 (1 mile) 	~2.6–3.7 kWh 	~12–18
                        kWh 	2.6–3.7x 	520–740x
                        b) *ICE Car* 	$1.50–$3 (1 mile) 	~1.4–2.1 kWh
                        ~12–18 kWh 	1.4–2.1x 	280–420x
                        c) *Hybrid Car* 	$1–$2 (1 mile) 	~0.8–1.1 kWh
                        ~12–18 kWh 	0.8–1.1x 	160–220x
                        d) *Electric Car* 	$0.50–$1 (1 mile) 	~0.4–0.5
                        kWh 	~12–18 kWh 	0.4–0.5x 	80–100x
                        e) *Walking* 	$0 (no cost) 	~0 kWh 	~0 kWh 	0x 	0x
                        f) *Bicycling* 	$0 (no cost) 	~0 kWh 	~0 kWh 	0x
                        	0x
                        g) *Public Transport* 	$1–$3 per ride 	~0.3–0.7
                        kWh (depending on method) 	~2–4 kWh (for a 1–2
                        hour ride) 	0.3–0.7x 	60–140x
                        *2) Beer Consumption* 	

                        a) *Local Craft Draft* 	$5–$10 per pint
                        ~0.8–1.3 kWh 	- 	1x 	160–260x
                        b) *Domestic Draft (Regional)* 	$3–$5 per pint
                        ~0.5–0.7 kWh 	- 	0.5–0.7x 	80–140x
                        c) *Domestic Can/Bottle* 	$2–$5 per can/bottle
                        ~0.4–0.8 kWh 	- 	0.4–0.8x 	60–140x
                        d) *Mexican Bottle* 	$3–$6 per bottle 	~0.9–1.8
                        kWh 	- 	1.1–1.4x 	180–360x
                        e) *European Can/Bottle* 	$4–$8 per can/bottle
                        ~1.5–2.9 kWh 	- 	1.9–3.7x 	300–580x
                        f) *Asian Can/Bottle* 	$4–$7 per can/bottle
                        ~2.1–3.6 kWh 	- 	2.6–4.6x 	340–720x
                        *3) GPT Model Queries* 	

                        a) *GPT-3 (Single Query)* 	Varies 	~0.002–0.005
                        kWh 	- 	0.002–0.006x 	0.4–1x
                        b) *GPT-4o (Single Query)* 	Varies 	~0.01–0.03
                        kWh 	- 	0.01–0.03x 	2–6x
                        c) *GPT-4o Mini (Single Query)* 	Varies
                        ~0.005–0.02 kWh 	- 	0.005–0.02x 	1–4x
                        d) *DeepSeekR1 (Single Query)* 	Varies
                        ~0.001–0.005 kWh 	- 	0.001–0.005x 	1x

                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Roger Critchlow 
> <rec at elf.org>
> *Date: *Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 11:36 AM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] genai and critical thinking
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 10:15 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> 
> wrote:
>
>     _[...]_ the evolving code itself -- code that can have informative
>     types and even carry proofs.   The weirdest thing about using AI
>     is that it has no opinions.  Claude will rewrite code without
>     asking (seemingly having no self-control), but it will not
>     confront you like a frustrated colleague might.  It is happy to
>     let you make a mess provided its sense of idiomatic code patterns
>     are satisfied.
>
>  This echoed something an old boss wrote me today:
>
>     I have much enjoyment torturing llms. I can get off the rails
>     rather easily.  They have no state, by themselves they cannot
>     calculate parity or play nim perfectly.
>
> Or one might say, they have no purpose.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
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