[FRIAM] Joe Rogan interviewing Bernie Sanders.
Frank Wimberly
wimberly3 at gmail.com
Fri Jun 27 09:22:21 EDT 2025
My wife Deborah taught a course in world religions in the Sunday school of
the Unitarian Church of Santa Fe. The students were elemetary and junior
high age kids. It was a well regarded project in the Church.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Fri, Jun 27, 2025, 3:47 AM Pieter Steenekamp <pieters at randcontrols.co.za>
wrote:
> I totally agree — it would be great if all students learned about the
> major world religions. I don’t have the inside scoop, but I’d be a bit
> surprised if Texas public schools don’t already include that.
>
> That said, teaching about religion is one thing. Starting the day with
> “Let us pray”? That’s a different ballgame — and, in my view, a firm no-go
> for any public school.
>
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 at 08:21, Russell Standish <lists at hpcoders.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 07:31:53AM +0200, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
>> >
>> > Now, here’s where it gets interesting. If we’re all chipping in tax
>> money for
>> > public education, then yes — I’m 100% on board with keeping religion
>> out of
>> > public schools. That’s not only a fair deal, I would be horrified if any
>> > religion were included.
>> >
>>
>> I have a dissenting opinion on this. I believe all students should
>> learn about all the major religions, including having a passing
>> knowledge of the contents of the Bible, the Koran, and a notion of the
>> special traditions etc of each one - eg the importance of confession
>> to Catholics, the importance of Shabat to Jews and Muslims, etc. In
>> todays world, you come across all these sorts of people, and having an
>> understanding of where they come from helps a lot.
>>
>> After all, the Bible is probably the most important work of fiction in
>> the English language, followed closely by the complete works of
>> Shakespeare.
>>
>> When my son went to school here in Australia, there was a smorgasbord
>> of about 3-4 varieties of Christianity and Judaism (no Islam, from
>> what I recall), and Non-religion, where you just got to read books in
>> the library. We sent him to the latter of course, but if there'd been
>> a proper comparitive religion course, that would have been my choice.
>>
>> > But if my neighbour is still paying her taxes like the rest of us, and
>> on top
>> > of that has to fork out again to send her kids to a private Christian
>> school —
>> > that's also just not right. A voucher system, to me, seems like a fair
>> > compromise. It respects both freedom of choice and fairness of
>> contribution.
>> > Maybe it’s not a perfect solution, but it does stop us from
>> double-charging
>> > parents for believing something different.
>> >
>> > For me, diversity of opinions and freedom to choose your religion is a
>> very
>> > good and positive thing.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 at 02:33, Santafe <desmith at santafe.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 27, 2025, at 7:31, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dave writes:
>> >
>> > < My 'mysticism', like my hallucinogenic experience, is nothing
>> more
>> > than a source of what I consider to be "real" data and a supply
>> of
>> > fascinating questions—never answers. >
>> >
>> > Not clear why something that supposedly cannot be captured by
>> mere
>> > language keeps getting pitched as a real and intersubjective
>> thing via
>> > language.
>> >
>> >
>> > I am much less bothered by this _in principle_, since I generally
>> hold the
>> > two premises:
>> >
>> > 1. Language is a collection of signals _within_ a system, that are
>> part of
>> > coordinating states among people; it doesn’t follow that language
>> should
>> > “contain” or “capture” anything that works as a model “of” the
>> system, in
>> > the way I would want formalism to have a mappability to phenomena in
>> > anything I consider science. Often language-in-general will have
>> some
>> > mutual information with something closer to a model, but that is
>> partly
>> > luck and not uniform. Languages that do have those mappable
>> qualities tend
>> > to be more bespoke, because they were under heavy pressure to do
>> that job,
>> > which is somewhat different from the background social/material
>> criteria
>> > for the great majority of language (though scientific language and
>> sense
>> > can both, I would argue, be seen to grow out of their counterparts
>> that
>> > have some presence in the broader bulk of language and
>> commonsense); and
>> >
>> > 2. The term “reality” is a problem in general. It is still too
>> close to
>> > its origins in the hand-me-down umbrella term from common usage,
>> which gets
>> > it accepted and used with a fluency that belies its evasive and
>> indefinite
>> > character. I would put it, in most instances of usage, in the
>> category I
>> > call “placeholder terms”. They enable the rest of discourse to
>> proceed,
>> > because something is needed in those slots, but that doesn’t mean
>> they
>> > necessarily carry very good meanings on their own. To the extent
>> that
>> > “reality” has a central tendency of meaning, it seems (to me) to be
>> around
>> > the notion of “since we are always trying to economize on
>> attention, which
>> > things are safest to turn your back on, in the expectation that
>> they will
>> > still be there and not bite you in the meantime?”
>> >
>> > So for a language-term to be suggesting that it is trying to
>> coordinate a
>> > state, with some somewhat reflexive situation-statement
>> acknowleding that
>> > it does not have a model of the state, together with the state
>> itself’s
>> > being so loosely handled that it is not clear when the people
>> really are
>> > coordinated or how they would decide on that, I can certainly see
>> this kind
>> > of pattern as an ordinary occurrence. Even if some
>> intersubjectivity would
>> > be reasonable to expect, in view of our vast overlapping
>> constitution
>> > shared by all being people, primates, mammals, and so on.
>> >
>> > I do like the idea that this is just a version of the normal
>> confusion, for
>> > things not understood very well (like, quite badly), and that one
>> could
>> > find ways to do better.
>> >
>> > Eric
>> >
>> >
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>> --
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>> Principal, High Performance Coders hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au
>> http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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